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PTSFP Paul

Trendy tell us what you intend to do wipe or re-roll.

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@gotrunks712 quote:

I wouldn't mind a complete gear wipe as long as I get to keep the pets I have hatched, since I believe the only changes coming to them will be active abilities.  I would be a little disappointed to see my Betsy weapons go, since legendaries rarely drop from her.  Either way though, I am fine with it.  It would be helpful to know beforehand.

They will also be losing Defense speed and gaining the 4 crit stats.

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@Batophobia quote:

I'm kinda surprised by the amount of resistance to a wipe.  The game is in early alpha and has been advertised as such.  It was made very clear that you should only be investing yourself in the game this early if you want to help influence the development of the game.  With that, there could very well be a point where a change is so drastic that a wipe is required.

If DD2 had already been released as F2P then I could see the problem of a wipe.  Even if the game were in a beta phase I could see arguments against wipes.  But the harsh reality is that core systems of the game are still in development.  This makes it so the community feedback can be considered and implemented even if the community is asking for a change of major game mechanics.  The downside of this is that some changes may require players to lose progress from their invested hours of playtime.  If you don't like that, then don't play early access games, or at least avoid anything in alpha stages.

Refund my crystals and idc. Reset those and we're gonna have some beef tho

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@Syclic quote:


@gotrunks712 quote:

I wouldn't mind a complete gear wipe as long as I get to keep the pets I have hatched, since I believe the only changes coming to them will be active abilities.  I would be a little disappointed to see my Betsy weapons go, since legendaries rarely drop from her.  Either way though, I am fine with it.  It would be helpful to know beforehand.

They will also be losing Defense speed and gaining the 4 crit stats.

True.  I didn't think of that.  Either way, I don't really want to re-grind for a Flickerwick...

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@Batophobia quote:

I'm kinda surprised by the amount of resistance to a wipe.  The game is in early alpha and has been advertised as such.  It was made very clear that you should only be investing yourself in the game this early if you want to help influence the development of the game.  With that, there could very well be a point where a change is so drastic that a wipe is required.

If DD2 had already been released as F2P then I could see the problem of a wipe.  Even if the game were in a beta phase I could see arguments against wipes.  But the harsh reality is that core systems of the game are still in development.  This makes it so the community feedback can be considered and implemented even if the community is asking for a change of major game mechanics.  The downside of this is that some changes may require players to lose progress from their invested hours of playtime.  If you don't like that, then don't play early access games, or at least avoid anything in alpha stages.

The game IS in a beta phase. Despite what trendy would like us to believe and despite what they tell you, this game cannot be called an alpha.  An game in an alpha status does not have this much functionality, and a majority of the time alpha games aren't even in a state where they can be expected to be played properly.  I'd go on about this, but I don't think it's worth my time explaining--either you're open to what I'm saying and you look up the differences to get a better idea than what I could explain or you're not open and it doesn't matter regardless how in depth I go.


Secondly, the part where you say "it was made clear you should only invest early in the game ... if you want to help influence the development" is a load of bull.  First off, many of the influence polls have been stated that "both are going to be made just help us decide which to focus on first." Yes there are some polls where this isn't the case, but there are very few of them, and it's very easy to just log on to the website and game once per day at a cost of about 1 minute max and get just as many influence points as people who "invest early."

I've got over 370 hours into this game, and I don't give a lick about what I have (partially because I've lost so much of what's important to me through egregious glitches), but I can say for a fact that I don't feel like my voice is being heard in the slightest.  I've tried to help steer things in, at least what I believe, to be a positive direction, but if you ask me, every single patch since foundation patch 1 has made the game overall worse.  Sure, extra maps are swell, pets are neat, and daily quests that give more than a pittance reward are cool.  However... let's look at some of the more baseline, but less visible, things that have also changed.

Huntress DPS: in foundation patch 1, they were average to mediocre.  In patch 2, they were great--my friend was able to (on his own, no less) kill the ogre on wave 3 of incursion hard mode on ramparts with a core build before the ogre even reached the firing range of the towers clustered around the cores.  In this latest patch though?  Butchered.  The swap from the spec point system to the skill sphere system made Huntress DPS garbage tier overnight (I won't get into the reasons why here--just ask anyone who played a lot of Huntress DPS in patch 2).

White text: Boost aura damage bonus %, LAR %, etc.  'nuff said.

Drop rates/RNG: Remember the part where I have over 370 hours into this game?  I still don't have level 25 ds dp legendary boots or gloves.  I'm currently running lvl 24 gloves and lvl 22 boots.  Do I really need to explain how absurd this is?

Let's not forget that they're adding crit damage and rate to everyone and everything next patch.  Granted, since I don't know the exact numbers and can't test out how good/bad it will be, I can't say for certain, but I'll just say this seems to be another step in the wrong/a bad direction.  Defense speed has been broken as a stat for a long time; not broken as in "OP" but broken as in "not functioning properly."  Despite this, they'd sooner ditch it and replace it with something else before they'd actually fix it properly. (if you're wondering how it's broken right now, it's not supposed to scale like it does right now--it's supposed to have diminishing returns iirc. if this were the case, ds and dp wouldn't be virtually interchangeable and you wouldn't get your optimal dps for most towers just by making the 2 stats approximately even with each other. irc, they kept saying they'd fixed it, but they never actually did)


And yet, despite all my warnings, time played, etc., I go unheard.  But never mind that I and my group of dedicated friends (who have even more time than I do in this game and are constantly testing this sort of stuff) seem to know the game better than Trendy do.  Our voice is not cared about (at least, not where it counts).  I used to just think that Trendy simply wasn't great at programming or something, but when the boots bug (you should know the one I'm talking about--if you don't, look around the forums for it in past posts or ask around in the social tavern or something) cropped up, I realized that they're actually just completely out of touch with their game; that bug should have been easily discovered long before the patch went out, much less take over a week to hotfix properly.  If only they actually cared about our voice and/or actually let us test patches and !@#$ then I'm willing to bet that if their coders are decent that over half of this game's current bugs wouldn't exist right now.


Anyway, I'm done ranting.  I hope I've opened some eyes, but I'm not counting on it.  Good day, ladies and gents.


P.S. regarding any odd paragraph structure near the end--I kinda stopped caring about making it proper eventually; my apologies for that.

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The most fair option here is a full wipe, gold, heroes, items, dailys, costumes, pets.

Lets go team wipe!

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Scan amount items in player's inventory / characters > delete items > replace with new random items of the same  level / rarity / type. How hard can it be? In case of full wipe = Perhaps a little token of appreciation would be to receive X tokens per 100 item power lost (so having higher level gear and higher rarity would obviously yield more tokens)?

Would speed up the grind for Uber spheres and the mysterious betsy egg (still have no idea if its any good)


Just thinking along here. Im fine with whatever the decision is, just dont keep us in the dark any longer, i wanna know when that patch lands so i have something to look foward to! :D

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@Prince Mononoke quote:

Post 

Thanks for this post. Every single one of your issues has been logged and has been discussed internally. Please know that everything that is said on our forums is written down and discussed in detail. As for testing patches, we'd love for you to help us out! If you're interested, please send a PM to Dani. He's the head of our Remote QA team. (This invitation goes out to anyone reading this, too. The more, the merrier! In the future, we'll have more obvious places on our website advertising the various community groups that you can join to help out.)

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@In.Session quote:

The most fair option here is a full wipe, gold, heroes, items, dailys, costumes, pets.

Lets go team wipe!

Why gold, that makes no sense.


Don't touch my gold !!! wipe away, but stay clear of my hard earned gold.

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I'm fine with re-rolling the stats that need to be removed.  You'll effectively have to rebuild all your gear because the chance of getting an amazing new stat is low.

After leveling six characters already, the prospect of going back through all that is not appealing.  If a wipe was the only option I would be fine with a wipe but It's not really fair to those that have been playing awhile to start from scratch if we have an alternative solution that will fix the issue. Those that are chomping at the bit to re roll their characters can easily do it themselves anytime they want right now...

Go Team Wipe Yourself!

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@Prince Mononoke quote:

The game IS in a beta phase. Despite what trendy would like us to believe and despite what they tell you, this game cannot be called an alpha.  An game in an alpha status does not have this much functionality, and a majority of the time alpha games aren't even in a state where they can be expected to be played properly.  I'd go on about this, but I don't think it's worth my time explaining--either you're open to what I'm saying and you look up the differences to get a better idea than what I could explain or you're not open and it doesn't matter regardless how in depth I go.

you appear not to understand what a beta game would be. Right now we are missing features and we get constant major changes, a beta game would not ever have something as a complete item stats change. Just because the game has certain features that allows you to play and have fun at the moment doesn't mean it's in a state. 

This is just the bones of the game, it's still the raw structure, but it's pretty well made structure that is being done in a way players can enjoy. 

It's like making a house when all you got is the pillars, however the pillars are made in a way that you can already be inside the house, yet that doesn't mean the house already has walls and roof.

It's not about you being able to play the game, it's a lot of core game still being made and decide. The game might not feel like it's pre-alpha but it is.


@Prince Mononoke quote:

I've got over 370 hours into this game, and I don't give a lick about what I have (partially because I've lost so much of what's important to me through egregious glitches), but I can say for a fact that I don't feel like my voice is being heard in the slightest.  I've tried to help steer things in, at least what I believe, to be a positive direction, but if you ask me, every single patch since foundation patch 1 has made the game overall worse.  Sure, extra maps are swell, pets are neat, and daily quests that give more than a pittance reward are cool.  However... let's look at some of the more baseline, but less visible, things that have also changed.

Well they don't listen to simply one person, your voice is heard and taken note of, but like you there are hundreds more players with even more time than you.

Also if you wanna help why not be less aggressive? I have seen some of your bug reports (with inaccurate titles) in the forums and it sounds like you're complaining in hate instead of actually reporting for the sake of making it better. 

@Prince Mononoke quote:

Huntress DPS: in foundation patch 1, they were average to mediocre.  In patch 2, they were great--my friend was able to (on his own, no less) kill the ogre on wave 3 of incursion hard mode on ramparts with a core build before the ogre even reached the firing range of the towers clustered around the cores.  In this latest patch though?  Butchered.  The swap from the spec point system to the skill sphere system made Huntress DPS garbage tier overnight (I won't get into the reasons why here--just ask anyone who played a lot of Huntress DPS in patch 2).

Hmmm, maybe because the game is infact, pre alpha and not what you think beta. It happened because the spheres were changed, and the reason your friend was able to do it was because of the charged primary which could reach 40% chance and now is on 15% chance. Developers mentioned that the numbers were changed and they were not happy with some of them and they will balance them with the time.
But then again, it comes to the point that a major game feature changed and has a few side effects including nerf of the good huntress single target dps build. The point is, it's pre-alpha, not beta, such polishing are made over time and not the focus, if they were to balance everything every change they did to detail, then we'd never leave the pre-alpha because it takes too long, as one feature implemented greatly changes the other.


@Prince Mononoke quote:

Let's not forget that they're adding crit damage and rate to everyone and everything next patch.  Granted, since I don't know the exact numbers and can't test out how good/bad it will be, I can't say for certain, but I'll just say this seems to be another step in the wrong/a bad direction.  Defense speed has been broken as a stat for a long time; not broken as in "OP" but broken as in "not functioning properly."  Despite this, they'd sooner ditch it and replace it with something else before they'd actually fix it properly. (if you're wondering how it's broken right now, it's not supposed to scale like it does right now--it's supposed to have diminishing returns iirc. if this were the case, ds and dp wouldn't be virtually interchangeable and you wouldn't get your optimal dps for most towers just by making the 2 stats approximately even with each other. irc, they kept saying they'd fixed it, but they never actually did)

Defense speed was broken in a way that it's way too hard to balance without adding caps that would then ruin the fun for many players. While Crit can go wrong, if it does it will just get changed, it's pre-alpha so they throw us these things and then our feedback and their own playing will allow them to decide if it stays or also gets changed. 

Diminishing it's return is simply adding a CAP and at that point it's better if we don't even have a stat if the cap is going to be something small.


@Prince Mononoke quote:

And yet, despite all my warnings, time played, etc., I go unheard.  But never mind that I and my group of dedicated friends (who have even more time than I do in this game and are constantly testing this sort of stuff) seem to know the game better than Trendy do.  

While you do point some issues, you are just aggressive about it and post it as fails instead of realizing that they're just balance issues. I don't understand your need to point out your time and that you have friends.

So yes, your "warnings" will go unheard, because you are providing feedback about balance features, however you're being aggressive and trying to insult trendy and trendy's team with unbalance issues that they probably know of, just not a priority. All because you seem to think the game is beta and you want to play the game, while on reality the game is pre alpha and they're focused in working on the game's core.

@Prince Mononoke quote:

 Our voice is not cared about (at least, not where it counts).  I used to just think that Trendy simply wasn't great at programming or something, but when the boots bug (you should know the one I'm talking about--if you don't, look around the forums for it in past posts or ask around in the social tavern or something) cropped up, I realized that they're actually just completely out of touch with their game; that bug should have been easily discovered long before the patch went out, much less take over a week to hotfix properly.  If only they actually cared about our voice and/or actually let us test patches.

Everyone's voice is cared, you don't seem to understand that things are not so black and white, just because there's a balance issue, it doesn't mean it should be fixed right away as a priority, because bigger plans probably will affect or even fix those balance issues. Try to see the bigger picture.

What would be the point of the boots bug getting fixed, if the fix would break something else? If they could they would have fixed it in the very same day if that didn't imply breaking more something.

I believe you're playing a game on early access so, what you did was exactly test the patch that came out, yet you're complaining that you didn't get to test it. If they didn't care about our voices the game would be much worse than what you think. 


I hope you don't get this personal, just as a part of this community and a fan of the game, i can understand the game being developed in a way that's more healthy for the game and i hope that doesn't change. 
Try to focus all that time you have to instead of blaming trendy for the game you think it's beta not being beta and help the pre-alpha game get better. 

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@Prince Mononoke quote:The game IS in a beta phase. Despite what trendy would like us to believe and despite what they tell you, this game cannot be called an alpha.  An game in an alpha status does not have this much functionality, and a majority of the time alpha games aren't even in a state where they can be expected to be played properly.  I'd go on about this, but I don't think it's worth my time explaining--either you're open to what I'm saying and you look up the differences to get a better idea than what I could explain or you're not open and it doesn't matter regardless how in depth I go.
Software in the "alpha phase" just means that it is not feature complete.  Since DD2 doesn't have all the planned systems and functionality yet, it hasn't moved to beta.  Beta testing is meant to be strictly bug-finding, performance-boosting, and minor tweaking.  You might consider some individual pieces of the game to be in a beta form, but the game as a whole is still in alpha.

@Prince Mononoke quote:First off, many of the influence polls have been stated that "both are going to be made just help us decide which to focus on first."
While that is true, influence votes are not the only method of influence.  Those polls are really only good for a "this or that" problem anyway.  If the forums are full of people complaining about a system (like the loot system) then Trendy will notice and start working on improving it.  Your example of not finding decent gear is one of many and Trendy has recognized it as an issue and has started taking the steps to re-work the loot system.


@Prince Mononoke quote:Huntress DPS: in foundation patch 1, they were average to mediocre.  In patch 2, they were great--my friend was able to (on his own, no less) kill the ogre on wave 3 of incursion hard mode on ramparts with a core build before the ogre even reached the firing range of the towers clustered around the cores.  In this latest patch though?  Butchered.  The swap from the spec point system to the skill sphere system made Huntress DPS garbage tier overnight (I won't get into the reasons why here--just ask anyone who played a lot of Huntress DPS in patch 2).

So Trendy changed a core system and it unbalanced the heroes.  It happens.  They have a limited internal testing team and rely on their early adopters to bring up these issues.  The Tavernkeep is setup for this exact type of feedback and you can go to the forums to get additional input from the rest of the community.


@Prince Mononoke quote:I've got over 370 hours into this game, and I don't give a lick about what I have (partially because I've lost so much of what's important to me through egregious glitches), but I can say for a fact that I don't feel like my voice is being heard in the slightest.
I would bet that this is because the community is currently in the dreaming phase.  There is a lot of begging for planned features like Survival mode, harder content, and PS4 version.  There's also quite a bit of imagining new systems which, let's be honest, would be more fun to work on.  It's not that balancing isn't going to happen, it's that they have other new things to add which could end up breaking the previous balance (*cough*skill spheres*cough*).  This is also the reason why the daily quests aren't that diverse or satisfying, they just wanted the system in so they could tweak it later.

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in the long run what does it matter? idk. but beyond that what are the actual pro's to a wipes pros to a reroll? what does it matter now? idk.

im personally in favor of a reroll. cause hey ive got bags loaded with legs works in my favor but a total wipe is kinda ugh.

i dont think its going to matter at all after we play for a month after the reroll or wipe. trendy said they cant even control how this is going to work at this moment

so like fozzie had said i got ready for a reroll and i hope to get some good gear from the reroll...

and if its a wipe i hope to god trendy puts trading in with the new patch cause farming with friends and having pieces scattered among the group that could make one good builder builder would be a total bummer.

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@GetYourWetWipes quote:

in the long run what does it matter? idk. but beyond that what are the actual pro's to a wipes pros to a reroll? what does it matter now? idk.

im personally in favor of a reroll. cause hey ive got bags loaded with legs works in my favor but a total wipe is kinda ugh.

i dont think its going to matter at all after we play for a month after the reroll or wipe. trendy said they cant even control how this is going to work at this moment

so like fozzie had said i got ready for a reroll and i hope to get some good gear from the reroll...

and if its a wipe i hope to god trendy puts trading in with the new patch cause farming with friends and having pieces scattered among the group that could make one good builder builder would be a total bummer.

This for the most part. I don't mind changes/re-rolls when a game is listed as "in development". It's expected. There is absolutely no reason to reset characters since most of the power level and scaling is on gear. Wiping characters would just piss a lot of people (myself included) for no real reason or gain. Pets would also be a minor contention point since they started out so glitchy. I realize defense speed is on some pets but they didn't say it was being removed completely just on items/gear. They said in a previous stream that Defense Speed will still be on spheres so I don't see the 50 or so Defense Speed on a level 10 (affection level) pet being a game breaker. Gold is fairly arbitrary outside of costume upgrades, pet food and gear leveling. Gold also represents a lot of time that I'd be soar to see disappear. Frankly we're going to need it when the gear hunt begins again. 


In regards to a gear wipe or re-roll it's a toss up. I'm not an engineer so I won't feign expertise here. That being said couldn't there simply be a system that would say "X" items would be replaced with "X" new items under the new system with approx. the same items level"? I'm not sure how easy or hard that would be but it sure seems beneficial to starting with nothing. This would take us a while to recover from but it's sure beats an item wipe. At least we could get back in there so to speak. I didn't start playing until after most of the legacy gear was "unavailable" so I've had to do things the hard/long way anyway....to do it over again would take a lot of the wind out of my sails. If it needs to be an item wipe so be it but man that's gonna suck to start that 25+ grind (or lower) all over again. My time is precious to me and if I'm re-doing the last few hundred hours or so over again that would suck. 

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[[78341,users]] i wonder if the new system is going to be released with the new story line how cool would that be playing a new game of a new game in a new game "do, dooo, do, do"

XD stay happy guys!

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