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Geyser trap + AA tower too strong?


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I was playing with a friend just the two of us. He was lvl 24 huntress and I had just dinged to lvl 25. We entered the second map in gamblers passage (can¨t remember map name right now) on 25++ and we beat it easily. We used geyser traps, lightning auras and AA towers. It was waaaaay too easy, I just want to know whether it is the AA+geyser that should be nerfed or if 25++ should be harder. The only problem we had was the one ogre who arrived in the last wave noone else came near our eggs (the main objective).

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Just to clarify... We went from 20+ to 25++ and still had no problems. This shouldn't be possible.

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It's the electrocute combo that's FAR too strong. Try doing it without electric auras, and you'll notice the difficulty is a bit more on par with what the devs intended.

Geyser traps are also a huge part of the problem too; once you get all mythical/legendary gear on and dump everything into attack rate, they reset before the enemy you just knocked up has landed. I have a dedicated geyser huntress, and you get get her geyser reset time down to 1.5 seconds, which guarantees nothing makes it past (especially when coupled with an electric aura).

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Yep, they should nerf that... Being able to permastun them is making it way too easy... I like the combo, but they changed the "drenched+frost = iceblocked minion" for a reason. 

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@watershock quote:

Yep, they should nerf that... Being able to permastun them is making it way too easy... I like the combo, but they changed the "drenched+frost = iceblocked minion" for a reason. 

it would seem odd to nerf a combination that required 3 different players to successfully put together I take you in a game that forces you more or less to play as a team.

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@PTSFP Paul quote:

it would seem odd to nerf a combination that required 3 different players to successfully put together I take you in a game that forces you more or less to play as a team.

It doesn't really need 3 different players. Just 3 separate heroes. Once you've got those 3 heroes to the appropriate level, you can just copy and paste the same strategy on most of the maps you play. Since you can use the same tactics when you're doing solo missions, its not really teamwork, is it?

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@DrumMajor012210 quote:


@PTSFP Paul quote:

it would seem odd to nerf a combination that required 3 different players to successfully put together I take you in a game that forces you more or less to play as a team.

It doesn't really need 3 different players. Just 3 separate heroes. Once you've got those 3 heroes to the appropriate level, you can just copy and paste the same strategy on most of the maps you play. Since you can use the same tactics when you're doing solo missions, its not really teamwork, is it?

it is impossible for Trendy to effectively moderate whether or not three people build it or one person takes the time to build three different characters. the only method for preventing this would be to decrease the player deck for each game to just one per player. 

at this point the game is hardly begun not the list completed Nurfing anything is more than a little premature.  

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Yeah a per-mob cooldown on electrocution would work rather well for this. Its a bit silly that 2 heros can permastunlock all but 2 enemy types (Ogres and Betsy). Or spread the CC immunity to all the specials. Of course this should be done after the lady orc doesn't oneshot everything she looks at...

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Or Increase enemies resistance to stun as we go further down difficulties in a point that perma stun is always impossible. 

The SkyGuard+ Geyser is a different thing, the damage and number of targets is interesting, the build was fun back when not everyone used, but now it's just way too annoying. 

I think the skyguard needs some balance:

  • Damage is already too high, it shouldn't slow enemies.
  • Due to how it acts, having more targets should mean less damage but in a balanced way, let's say reduces 5% damage for each extra target it's gonna shoot. This way it would still take care of anti air, but your choice to abuse it for other means would make it weaker making you think twice before doing a build abusing it.

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On SkyGuards,

Removing the slow reduces the amount of time it gets to attack - reducing its dps.

..and then you want to reduce the damage of its bolts when they split and attack different enemies as well?

I'm curious what builds abuse SkyGuards. At the moment I use them and have only seen them used in 1's and 2's to help cover a flank / blindspot against air (like in Forgotten Ruins), or as a last defense against the air that sneaks through. This seems to be what they were designed for, so I'm confused how removing slow and reducing their damage for builds that "abuse" - run only a small number of SkyGuards (when they can only hit airborne enemies) is necessary.


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@Observious quote:

On SkyGuards,

Removing the slow reduces the amount of time it gets to attack - reducing its dps.

..and then you want to reduce the damage of its bolts when they split and attack different enemies as well?

I'm curious what builds abuse SkyGuards. At the moment I use them and have only seen them used in 1's and 2's to help cover a flank / blindspot against air (like in Forgotten Ruins), or as a last defense against the air that sneaks through. This seems to be what they were designed for, so I'm confused how removing slow and reducing their damage for builds that "abuse" - run only a small number of SkyGuards (when they can only hit airborne enemies) is necessary.


The gambler's pass maps, specifically the incursions, have oodles and oodles of wyverns that really make the skyguard shine above all other AA defenses. Personally out of all the Monk's defenses I think it is the most balanced, but that's not saying much given how broken the electric and boost aura are right now.

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@PTSFP Paul quote:


@watershock quote:

Yep, they should nerf that... Being able to permastun them is making it way too easy... I like the combo, but they changed the "drenched+frost = iceblocked minion" for a reason. 

it would seem odd to nerf a combination that required 3 different players to successfully put together I take you in a game that forces you more or less to play as a team.

You only need 2 players/ chars to break the game with AA+geyser+lightning aura. 

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@watershock quote:


@PTSFP Paul quote:


@watershock quote:

Yep, they should nerf that... Being able to permastun them is making it way too easy... I like the combo, but they changed the "drenched+frost = iceblocked minion" for a reason. 

it would seem odd to nerf a combination that required 3 different players to successfully put together I take you in a game that forces you more or less to play as a team.

You only need 2 players/ chars to break the game with AA+geyser+lightning aura. 

3 actually. Generally LA can't kill ogres by themselves and skyguards are useless against them, therefore making it necessary for a tank squire or app/squire builder.

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The stun combo is indeed very powerful. But what are our alternatives? Every other line of defense we can throw up does not hold out.


For ogre you cant do anything. You can slow it down with a barricade. ( I know stun does not work on ogre)

For mini bosses like the long ranged ones, they will easily erase the barricade before you get their 900k health down, then 1 or 2 shot at the defenses and you are screwed.


Barricades needs to become more viable, either by upgrading their base passives or effects, make better spheres or boost gear passives. When we have more than 1 choice with defenses, then they can nerf the stun combo. 

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if you're to strong, just play hard or switch to incursion when you're 25. with lvl ~145 equipment, 20+ and 25++ are easy indeed.

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why build AA at all on liferoot? the electro combo is all you need to beat this map doesn't matter the level of difficulty played on. Build where the side lanes slope downward and you can hit the flying mobs. 2 geysers 2 auras (a boost to help speed things along) in each lane is all you need. 

The new maps are a joke. I can only assume the mini bosses weren't supposed to be effected by electro in the same way ogres and Mal aren't. The Den map they need to do something about the dual ogres on wave 4, just space the spawn times apart 20 seconds so solo play becomes possible. Crossroads is the only 1 that's actually in a decent place in my opinion.


"drenched+frost = iceblocked minion"

I don't think this was ever a thing. The frozen mobs was based on the old frost tower spec proc.

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@EviLGreeNPenguiN quote:


"drenched+frost = iceblocked minion"

I don't think this was ever a thing. The frozen mobs was based on the old frost tower spec proc.

There was actually a post previously mentioning on how they wanted drenched enemies hit by the chill ray of the frostbite tower to be all frozen, that's one of a few ideas that *could* be made into a combo. 

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Yep, they should nerf that... Being able to permastun them is making it way too easy... I like the combo, but they changed the "drenched+frost = iceblocked minion" for a reason.

I think this is the post you're referring to? Way it read to me sounded like they were saying it USED to be a thing.

But yea I had suggested the same idea way back when in the "suggest a spec" thread so I do think it'd be a nice combo to add.



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@Cdr.Keen quote:

if you're to strong, just play hard or switch to incursion when you're 25. with lvl ~145 equipment, 20+ and 25++ are easy indeed.

Our equipment was waaaay lower, as my friend wasn't even 25 and I just became 25. my best piece of gear was 102 and my worst (gloves) was around 60. most of my gear was in the 75-80. Ofc I expect it to be easy with better gear than intended, but I also expect it to be hard when the opposite is the case (lower gear than inteded)

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@watershock quote:


@Cdr.Keen quote:

if you're to strong, just play hard or switch to incursion when you're 25. with lvl ~145 equipment, 20+ and 25++ are easy indeed.

Our equipment was waaaay lower, as my friend wasn't even 25 and I just became 25. my best piece of gear was 102 and my worst (gloves) was around 60. most of my gear was in the 75-80. Ofc I expect it to be easy with better gear than intended, but I also expect it to be hard when the opposite is the case (lower gear than inteded)

As others have mentioned, it's the stun effect from Lightning applied to drenched targets. In my opinion, there should be more units or mechanics that make it less potent. Chrome enemies on Lost Temple are a great example; I joined a group doing that same build and they were completely caught off guard by enemies that are incapable of being stunned or knocked back, leading to a challenging game.

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@RetroPenguin quote:

Why don't we not nerf anything, and just makes barricades not completely useless

I agree with the fact that barricades need to be more viable, but the easiest way to do that is to apply this nerf. Barricades are only avoided because nobody has dedicated health tower builds for barricades. The bottom line is that the present (and only that I know of) elemental combo through towers (LA/Geyser) can literally perma-stun anything that isn't an Ogre. How is this not broken?

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@CAPSisHARDCORE quote:


@RetroPenguin quote:

Why don't we not nerf anything, and just makes barricades not completely useless

I agree with the fact that barricades need to be more viable, but the easiest way to do that is to apply this nerf. Barricades are only avoided because nobody has dedicated health tower builds for barricades. The bottom line is that the present (and only that I know of) elemental combo through towers (LA/Geyser) can literally perma-stun anything that isn't an Ogre. How is this not broken?

The La/Geyser combo is basically replacing barricade builds at the moment. The combo is essentially just a "wall" that cannot be passed OR attacked by the wave at all. This means it's pretty much lick having a barricade with 1,000,000 hp because it wont fall like a barricade will, yet it serves the exact same function. Not allowing any enemies to pass, while at the same time doing more damage than any barricade could dream of.

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@EviLGreeNPenguiN quote:

Yep, they should nerf that... Being able to permastun them is making it way too easy... I like the combo, but they changed the "drenched+frost = iceblocked minion" for a reason.

I think this is the post you're referring to? Way it read to me sounded like they were saying it USED to be a thing.

But yea I had suggested the same idea way back when in the "suggest a spec" thread so I do think it'd be a nice combo to add.



If I remember correctly, it actually was a combo waaaaay back. (A long time ago when it was playtests in specific weekends) when it was just us Defense Counsellors.

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