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Why do incursion HARD still drop gear below lvl 25?

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One thing I have noticed in all of the threads complaining about the drop rates;  Everyone seems to discount single stat (DP or DS) legendaries.  A level 25 legendary with only DP or DS with beat out any level 25 mythic with both stats due to shear number of stat points.  The only way it is not better, is if all your pieces have the same stat and you are unable to move bonus points into the other stat for optimal dps.

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The problem is items were dropping with both. Why should newer players have only one stay it the other? Trendy have made it harder to gear up for newer players. In doing so made it boring for geared up players as there are no upgrades.

To the point no one will be playing soon.

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@Omamba quote:

One thing I have noticed in all of the threads complaining about the drop rates.

Drop QUALITY would be the correct term. Drop rates are not the issue. Plenty of people (including myself) were/are getting trash legendaries. The abundance is there and overall drop rate doesn't need to be touched (besides maybe Betsy dropping a guaranteed legendary). The problem is out of everything that does drop, I always ask "What do you have to show for it?" Well, I have over 500 hours into DD2 and I still don't have a DS/DP helm. That's what I have to show for it. 

If you tune the drop quality to allow 25 only legendaries in a 25 only game mode, that reduces the amount of RNG by 1 tier. For those that say players will get geared in "hours", I still need to beat out 6-7 tiers of RNG to get a perfect item. Let's currently see how many tiers I need to go through to get my helm. 

25 Hard Incursion (Public, 25 only) -

1) Item dropped is legendary.

2) Item dropped is a helm.

3) Helm is level 25.

4) Helm has DS.

5) Helm has DP.

6) Helm has LAR (I took this into account last patch, this can now be removed).

7) Helm has 11%+ LAR/Boost (I took this into account last patch, this can now be removed).


This piece (Helm) can now be replaced with gloves since you can get LAR on them. Still, the comment I made above still stands. I have over 500 hours into DD2 and I still don't have a DS/DP helm. That's what I have to show for it. 


Just wait until onslaught comes out and you go through 50 waves to get a blue item that is level 24. I can't wait!  


TL;DR - Making 25 only game modes drop equivalent (i.e. 25 only legendaries) will not get people "geared in hours and stop playing". 

 

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[[62721,users]]

just out of curiosity, are you picking up only lvl 25 legendary drops?

~500hours and no legendary DP DS helmet is some bad luck indeed, unless you are playing something else than incursions of course.

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@Bunniecake quote:

Aesthetic

just out of curiosity, are you picking up only lvl 25 legendary drops?

~500hours and no legendary DP DS helmet is some bad luck indeed, unless you are playing something else than incursions of course.

I haven't played much this patch besides 20-50 hours (somewhere in that range) along with getting my uber, but if a DS/DP helm dropped that was even 23, 24, or luckily 25, I would gladly pick it up. The DS helm I use rolled near max speed (level 25) with high LAR and that's why I use it. Haven't found anything better unfortunately.

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@Aesthetic quote:


@Bunniecake quote:

Aesthetic

just out of curiosity, are you picking up only lvl 25 legendary drops?

~500hours and no legendary DP DS helmet is some bad luck indeed, unless you are playing something else than incursions of course.

I haven't played much this patch besides 20-50 hours (somewhere in that range) along with getting my uber, but if a DS/DP helm dropped that was even 23, 24, or luckily 25, I would gladly pick it up. The DS helm I use rolled near max speed (level 25) with high LAR and that's why I use it. Haven't found anything better unfortunately.

This also encompasses my point.

Not only do we see a decrease in useful stats but, Trendy is simplifying the drops MORE so that less opportunity exist to find equipment that will help you develop your character.

In DD1 EVERY piece of equipment had a use to EVERY character.  Not that every piece was GOOD but, rather all the stats where available on every piece.

Trendy has increased the grind AND made it less interesting for the players.  Why would you reduce the number of items special stats will spawn on?  Why not make the specials on option on ALL loot?  This would increase the grind and encourage players to look for 5 perfect items not just 2 or 3.

rollback the old drops.  Release a Nightmare mode map crank the difficulty up and let the players farm their brains out to find those perfect stats needed to play the nightmare maps.


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My biggest problem is that every single squire item I got has spike blockade heal, which is completely useless. I don't even know how many spike blockade pieces are available, probably helmet, relic and weapon... but with 3, it is still a trash mod.

And on my huntress, it is all basically concussive stun duration, piercing shot damage, and oil slow.

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I'd also like to see a larger variety of stats featured on the gear, opening up more play-styles and not all huntresses simply stacking crit damage.

However they are well aware of the current problem with gear drops and item stats, so let's see what happens with the next patch as item stat rerolls is on the bill.

As for the gear drops in Incursion...I feel that it's perfectly fine. It shouldn't be easy to fully gear-out in legendaries. They're legendary, I think they drop too much personally. Two incursions and I had full legendary slots on my Huntress, maybe not itemized exactly to what I'd like but nonetheless fully geared. I think that legendaries should be far more rare, such as the elusive legendary loot chest, and the mythicals should be balanced a bit higher to compensate for that.

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@Cheddarmancer quote:

I'd also like to see a larger variety of stats featured on the gear, opening up more play-styles and not all huntresses simply stacking crit damage.

However they are well aware of the current problem with gear drops and item stats, so let's see what happens with the next patch as item stat rerolls is on the bill.

As for the gear drops in Incursion...I feel that it's perfectly fine. It shouldn't be easy to fully gear-out in legendaries. They're legendary, I think they drop too much personally. Two incursions and I had full legendary slots on my Huntress, maybe not itemized exactly to what I'd like but nonetheless fully geared. I think that legendaries should be far more rare, such as the elusive legendary loot chest, and the mythicals should be balanced a bit higher to compensate for that.

The reality is that any player can get a complete load out of gear that doesn't complement their character at all.  The point I am making is not that the drop RATE if off but, rather the quality of the drops is very poor.

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I have hit the end of endgame. Nothing more to do at the moment. Last 20 runs on Liferoot gave nothing to improve my heroes.


To add variety to DD2 instead of endless grinding of Betsy and Liferoot, we need map specific loot and pets. Just like in DD1.


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I hit level 25 the day after the patch launched.  I haven't replaced a piece of gear since the three days after I hit 25...something is broken.  Even what I have equipped on most characters isn't even that great, but I still can't find an upgrade.

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Whilst my four characters have only been 25 for a few days (I'm no expert), I kind of agree. There has been some serious similarities with the gear thats dropping incursion side. Didn't they say in the last devstream that they are patching in some back end fixes that makes adjusting loot tables a lot easier? I seem to remember loot adjusting was taking the team ages to complete due to the current system?

Carry on apprentice_small.png

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@T-Chimp quote:

Whilst my four characters have only been 25 for a few days (I'm no expert), I kind of agree. There has been some serious similarities with the gear thats dropping incursion side. Didn't they say in the last devstream that they are patching in some back end fixes that makes adjusting loot tables a lot easier? I seem to remember loot adjusting was taking the team ages to complete due to the current system?

Carry on apprentice_small.png

Loot is a major focus for the next patch.  Hopefully a lot of the issues myself and others are facing will be fixed next patch.

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have to agree the loot does seam  off i played for a few hours today  got 19 legendarys all trash ( didnt even look at item lvl ) 16 out of 19 drops was boots  -_-  all with random stats like hp and dp  ap ds   still searching for some new gloves for my munk and a new helm and weapon to swap out 

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Slightly off topic but still talking about gear
Which should be level 25 at incursion level and the only truly useful stats currently are DP/DS in combo which most gear doesn't have and then getting lucky with special stats on top of that.......................

I've said this is a few threads and I'll say it again because I think it would be the most interesting way moving forward.

Make it so gear does not have the combination of DP/DS and re balance accordingly.

What does this lead to:
- Heroes covering multiple roles and being more flexible in general.
- Combination of roles such as Builder Squire and Blockade Squire.
- Heroes being more interesting/fun/useful to play in general.
- Apprentice aiming for DP/DS/AP (Feel like a Mage!)
- Huntress aiming for DH/DS/HD (Even fully spec'd HD, damage is still lacking but........ its a start).

Making alot more gear actually useful for different characters and reducing the grind significantly.

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Well to answer the thread's question, it would probably be to the way loot is generated in game, the quality of the loot is related to level and item power. 

The only issue is really the "number" on the level, 'cause the quality of it it's intentional so you don't get gear way way too good for the available content (even tho you actually do, it could be worse) 

So let's you get a legendary lvl 24, what really bothers you is the number 24 or it being weaker? 

If doesn't exactly make sense unless you try to think how the gear is generated in order to probably keep the balance. Why is there no gear lvl 25+++? 

When level cap is increased you'll be able to get loot more adequate to each level rank. 

Right now trying to balance things in such depth would probably be time waste 'cause there are so many things that are priority.

Now bad RNG is a totally different history. They are always working to improve it as you may be aware if you keep track of dev logs and dev streams

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@bc304daedalus quote:

have to agree the loot does seam  off i played for a few hours today  got 19 legendarys all trash ( didnt even look at item lvl ) 16 out of 19 drops was boots  -_-  all with random stats like hp and dp  ap ds   still searching for some new gloves for my munk and a new helm and weapon to swap out 

How can you say that the drops were trash if you didn't even look at the item power?  What level were they?  What level/rarity/stats are you currently using for that slot?

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@Omamba quote:


@bc304daedalus quote:

have to agree the loot does seam  off i played for a few hours today  got 19 legendarys all trash ( didnt even look at item lvl ) 16 out of 19 drops was boots  -_-  all with random stats like hp and dp  ap ds   still searching for some new gloves for my munk and a new helm and weapon to swap out 

How can you say that the drops were trash if you didn't even look at the item power?  What level were they?  What level/rarity/stats are you currently using for that slot?

Sorry but, this just seems really silly to me.

Item did not have the stats/type he/she was after = trash, it is that simple.

I've had zero upgrades since the last patch and have had only one legendary item that was a contender with dp/ds, level 23 (about 23 hours for 0 actual progress on any of my 4chars).

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@Bonzai101 quote:


@Omamba quote:


@bc304daedalus quote:

have to agree the loot does seam  off i played for a few hours today  got 19 legendarys all trash ( didnt even look at item lvl ) 16 out of 19 drops was boots  -_-  all with random stats like hp and dp  ap ds   still searching for some new gloves for my munk and a new helm and weapon to swap out 

How can you say that the drops were trash if you didn't even look at the item power?  What level were they?  What level/rarity/stats are you currently using for that slot?

Sorry but, this just seems really silly to me.

Item did not have the stats/type he/she was after = trash, it is that simple.

I've had zero upgrades since the last patch and have had only one legendary item that was a contender with dp/ds, level 23 (about 23 hours for 0 actual progress on any of my 4chars).

He said they had stats like hp/dp and ap/ds.  DP and DS are both stats useful for builders (which I assume he is looking for).  Thus, without looking at item level, you can't automatically discount those pieces as trash.  It's been awhile since of looked, but a 25 legendary with DP or DS will beat out any mythic and I think any dual piece legendary up to level 22 or 23.

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@Omamba quote:


@Bonzai101 quote:


@Omamba quote:


@bc304daedalus quote:

have to agree the loot does seam  off i played for a few hours today  got 19 legendarys all trash ( didnt even look at item lvl ) 16 out of 19 drops was boots  -_-  all with random stats like hp and dp  ap ds   still searching for some new gloves for my munk and a new helm and weapon to swap out 

How can you say that the drops were trash if you didn't even look at the item power?  What level were they?  What level/rarity/stats are you currently using for that slot?

Sorry but, this just seems really silly to me.

Item did not have the stats/type he/she was after = trash, it is that simple.

I've had zero upgrades since the last patch and have had only one legendary item that was a contender with dp/ds, level 23 (about 23 hours for 0 actual progress on any of my 4chars).

He said they had stats like hp/dp and ap/ds.  DP and DS are both stats useful for builders (which I assume he is looking for).  Thus, without looking at item level, you can't automatically discount those pieces as trash.  It's been awhile since of looked, but a 25 legendary with DP or DS will beat out any mythic and I think any dual piece legendary up to level 22 or 23.

Dear Omamba, bc has full legendary DP and DS gear, any part without both of the stats is automatically trash, what he is looking for is Legendary item with both of the stats, when he finds that there are still some requirements for it, the stats have to be rolled higher than he already has - which doesnt happen very often, of course there is a case like this: you have DP DS gloves but no LA rate on them - new ones with same DS and no DP but with LA rate could be better. But that's also very rare.

For new players there is a lot less "trash" - someone's trash is someone's treasure.

The actual itempower doesn't matter at all, 158 may have higher rolls than 163, lvl 23-24 130 item may have higher rolls than 163 item.

But all this getting no upgrades talk is about min/max.. I don't know if the rates should even be adjusted based on that, probably not. There should be other stuff that people do the playing for, not just maxing out their gear.

IMO the rates are actually good at the moment, with just couple hundred hours of grinding you have already farmed yourself a big bunch of builder gear and should be looking for min/max now, which is totally not needed to complete any map = Completed the game and the rest you can do is for.. perfection that gives you some serious pleasure?


I don't really know what there should be to get rid of this..

Crafting system for our costumes, so we would collect ingredients to make something cool looking?

Farming wyvern tokens wouldn't solve anything it's just for some ubers and betsy egg, that's perfectly fine as a daily. 

Level cap to 500 and 5000 more maps? Would definitely add something else than gear maxing to the game but would players even reach the endgame before killing themselves playing this? I'd guess this also requires like 100years of work for current amount of employees on trendy.

Pets are adding something like this once we get to evolve them and have abilities and more of them "Gotta catch 'em all"

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@Bunniecake quote:

Dear Omamba, bc has full legendary DP and DS gear, any part without both of the stats is automatically trash, what he is looking for is Legendary item with both of the stats, when he finds that there are still some requirements for it, the stats have to be rolled higher than he already has - which doesnt happen very often, of course there is a case like this: you have DP DS gloves but no LA rate on them - new ones with same DS and no DP but with LA rate could be better. But that's also very rare.


Then he already has a very solid set of gear and only needs that slight upgrade.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't understand why people complain that drop rates are bad because they can't get perfect gear without farming for a long, long time.  It absolutely should take hours and hours and hours of farming to get perfect gear.  Making it so players can get perfect gear relatively quickly is a bad idea.  I play these kinds of games with the hopes of getting better gear to make my characters more powerful.  Sure, if I had the absolute best gear, I would have fun for a little bit.  However, I will rapidly lose interest in the game as I would have nothing really to work towards.

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I get what you are saying Omamba but there has been an inequality here that is the root cause of all this.

The longer the player has been playing the more likely they will have a full set of DP/DS gear with passives, which is true.

However back before patch this patch that the overall perception was that these legendaries dropped far more regularly, which is also true.

People coming in during these changes in drop rate are at a severe disadvantage to the people who played before the changes.

We, as a species, are predisposed to covet our neighbours gear, it is a failing of the human race.

Also it is Trendy's failing not to have kept a level playing field, but with a constantly evolving game that is enormously hard for them to do.

So we either all become more serene and happy with our lot, or we all post on the inequalities of life the universe and everything.

As Homo Sapiens the latter is the norm.

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Figured I would post my two cents due to something that I just got after about 100 hours in the last couple of weeks. I just got a lvl 25 Relic with DP/DS on it and while I had already gotten one previously it was a lvl 22 that I got in Hard mode Incursion and I fully upgraded it to level 33 and even with it being fully upgraded it was not as good as the level 25 that I got with no upgrades. That is where the issue is the level 22 and 23 stuff has no right to drop in the current end game difficulty setting. I don't want to have perfect gear in a week or two of intense grinding I just don't want 50% of my legendarys to be garbage due to them being low level.


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[[52650,users]] there hasn't been any changes to the drop rates in this patch or foundation 2 patch. Foundation 1 was the update that changed the rates and they have been the same since then. I haven't noticed any difference in the rates, there is nothing in patch notes about changing the rates, there is no difference in the rates. Play more to nullify the RNG.

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I totally agree. i have nothing against grinding hours in this game, but getting level 22 items really tests my patience...

Please fix this. or at least make it worth to accomplice 25+++ "Hard and normal"

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