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Spirit Essence

How would YOU make heroes better damage dealers?

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Greetings!


This thread is a mix of a discussion/suggestion. But since there is no direct suggestion here, and mostly discussion towards an idea, I thought GD would be the appropriate place to post. Correct me if I'm wrong :)


Basically, I would love to know what everyone thought about heroes as damage dealers, and how they could/should be balanced.


I would personally love to see:

- Squire getting more overall resistance to damage

- Overall higher damage output (Pure hero damage is not BAD; but not as good as I personally would like to see it)

- Apprentice normal attack being a small AoE

- Hero Attack Speed Spheres

- Huntress should have a crit chance on ALL parts of an enemies body (even if just a low one)


Those were just a few that I personally think would make heroes more interesting as DPS. They are not direct suggestions to the developers as I'm unsure myself if they would actually do more harm than good, so please give me your opinion, and let me know what you think should be done to heroes.


PEACE

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Squire isn't too bad at the moment. Huntress needs her damage scaling back.

Apprentice mana bomb is truly awful but tornado is great.

Just a better damage scaling per x points of hero damage stat would do it.

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Hero attack speed increase would be nice, even if placebo of ahotting quicker... but given the direction first taken with DDE and RoF I'm doubtful we will see an increase , I try to remain hopeful for that and multiple projectiles.  

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I don't mind the dps at the moment hero interaction is still present if you choose for it too be. Although I wouldn't mind high class weapons to have elemental passove on them that allow combos to occur. Drench and lightning is quite fun with a lightning pet and a bow.

also just so you know there is a specific "suggestion" component of the forum, you can see more ideas there.

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Huntress:

  • Make critical spots more visible to players. Implement a critical spot to Betsy.
  • Concussive Shots first arrow should not explode directly in front of the huntress.
  • Make physical damage abilities scale off of hero damage and ability power.
  • Increase the width of the Piercing Shot.
  • Lower the Piercing Shot cooldown.
  • Increase the Oil Flask aoe.

Squire:

  • Reduce the amount of items giving increased Provoke duration so that it's not possible any more to stay in this form as long as you got enough mana.
  • Sword Beam should not loose damage after the first monster hit.
  • Sword Beam attracts monsters to focus on the squire.

Monk:

  • Rework the cooldowns for his abilities.
  • Make his secondary attack more stable and steady instead of a small cooldown after 4-6 hits.

Apprentice:

  • Make Arcane Volley shoot at as many targets as there are currently marked.
  • Make all abilities or attacks mark monsters.
  • Monsters hit by Mana Bomb should loose their magical resistances.
  • Remove a limit for marks. (This sounds strong but with decent gear you got around 8 more marks and I doubt there are waves with more than 13 monsters anyway).

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Implementation of the weapon variety they spoke about that would include similar things to Rate and Projectiles with this our way of damaging would be better.

Apprentice:

  • The projectile implementation will change a lot, right now apprentice DPS is all based on tornado, giving some use to the other abilities would make it way better, right now arcane volley even fully AP does less damage than a charged attack, even with +10 marks (special stats rock!) it's still not useful.
  • Improvement on the marking system, having to remark after every attack is painful, mark should remain until mark limit ends or target dies.
  • Mana Bomb has to actually a MANA BOMB, needs knockback and damage, it sounds so powerful, the animation is so powerful, yet the output is so weak it's sad.

  • Better specs/Skill Spheres


Huntress:

  • Spec Re-balance so they're useful again. 
  • Increase in ability damage.
  • The mentioned Weapon variety 


Monk:

  • The weapon variety previous mentioned.
  • (ran out of time to type the rest)

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Squire: Higher basic scaling, thats it. 

Apprentice: More powerful abilities. I don't want to see him as an autoattacker, I want him to have to use his skills for damage. Whatever Arcane Volleys AP scaling is, double it. Or more.

Huntress: On the opposite from the apprentice, I want her to be an attack based character. Since we are talking about an overall Hero buff, simply undoing the nerfs should suffice. Also change the crit damage enchant to include a crit chance increase on non-head body parts.

Monk: More powerful range attacks. They are weaker than his melees, which are large AoEs, that doesn't make sense... Also for his melee attacks to reach up a bit, so they can hit Pole Smashed enemies more.

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with more damage...

EDIT:

   if trendy decides to go the route of just giving bosses a crap ton of HP like say in that one game by bungy....what the name of it....i forget... but if bosses are not going to be hard and just have hp then i would say

   with more damage.....

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@itssirtou quote:

Squire: Higher basic scaling, thats it. 

Apprentice: More powerful abilities. I don't want to see him as an autoattacker, I want him to have to use his skills for damage. Whatever Arcane Volleys AP scaling is, double it. Or more.

Huntress: On the opposite from the apprentice, I want her to be an attack based character. Since we are talking about an overall Hero buff, simply undoing the nerfs should suffice. Also change the crit damage enchant to include a crit chance increase on non-head body parts.

Monk: More powerful range attacks. They are weaker than his melees, which are large AoEs, that doesn't make sense... Also for his melee attacks to reach up a bit, so they can hit Pole Smashed enemies more.

I've always been baffled about how underwhelming monks secondary really is. There is really no point to it at all.

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Have an in map system that lets you spend green mana and consume DU for hero damage/utility buffs for that map. With the effects being reset between maps obv. Basically adapting the idea of match long hero customization that is all over MOBAs and some FPS games. Might end up making a suggestion thread about it, but I'd want to be more detailed about it than I have thought about so far.

The thought being that there would be more freedom to increase hero damage over what it is now if the same resources are used to up their damage comparable to placing defenses instead.



Outside of that vague suggestion, The animation locks on melee attacks turns me off completely from wanting to use them to kill things. Animation locks of any kind really aren't fun.

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@Syclic quote:

Have an in map system that lets you spend green mana and consume DU for hero damage/utility buffs for that map. With the effects being reset between maps obv. Basically adapting the idea of match long hero customization that is all over MOBAs and some FPS games. Might end up making a suggestion thread about it, but I'd want to be more detailed about it than I have thought about so far.

The thought being that there would be more freedom to increase hero damage over what it is now if the same resources are used to up their damage comparable to placing defenses instead.



Outside of that vague suggestion, The animation locks on melee attacks turns me off completely from wanting to use them to kill things. Animation locks of any kind really aren't fun.

You mean animations like the mana bomb and firebird? If so, I wouldn't mind them as much if they actually packed the punch you would come to expect when you first see the animation. If the mana bomb was truely powerful and effective, seeing the animation wouldnt be so bad in my opinion. However, fast phased abilities, such as tornado, sword beam etc needs to be quick to cast.

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@Spirit Essence quote:

Outside of that vague suggestion, The animation locks on melee attacks turns me off completely from wanting to use them to kill things. Animation locks of any kind really aren't fun.

You mean animations like the mana bomb and firebird? If so, I wouldn't mind them as much if they actually packed the punch you would come to expect when you first see the animation. If the mana bomb was truely powerful and effective, seeing the animation wouldnt be so bad in my opinion. However, fast phased abilities, such as tornado, sword beam etc needs to be quick to cast.

Sounds like he's talking more about melee auto attacks and not abilities 

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@itssirtou quote:

Monk: More powerful range attacks. They are weaker than his melees, which are large AoEs, that doesn't make sense... Also for his melee attacks to reach up a bit, so they can hit Pole Smashed enemies more.

It does make sense, if you had a wide swing you would hit more people too :P

Also, Monks should be more melee in my opinion, whats the point of giving monks melee if your not going to use it? I think monks are like ninjas in other games. They have little health BUT deal lots of damage to quickly deal with the enemy before it kills you, which brings me up to my thought about this post.

Not just monks, but all classes are too weak. It takes way to long to just kill a dumb goblin. DD2 lacks the awe of being overpowered in DD1. In not asking anything like killing ogres or bosses in one hit like DD1 though, I just want to be able to orcs in only 2 or 3 hits. I just want to be able to actually do something considering im mainly a DPS guy. Also you cant get crits when using a melee character, whats up with that?

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I don't think there is a need for every Hero to be able to do damage well or the classes lose their niches and specializations.

What I would like to see is alternate weapons that have alternate abilities. Maybe have two-handed swords for the Warrior that makes him offensive-oriented, and maybe fist weapons or the like to the monk to make him more single-target control based ( I don't know much about monk, just spit-balling here ). Maybe an orb/focus for the Apprentice that gives him four different elemental abilities for light combos.

All-in-all I'd just like more varieties in play styles. Alternate weapons seem like an easy(ish) way to accomplish that.

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@Cheddarmancer quote:

I don't think there is a need for every Hero to be able to do damage well or the classes lose their niches and specializations.

What I would like to see is alternate weapons that have alternate abilities. Maybe have two-handed swords for the Warrior that makes him offensive-oriented, and maybe fist weapons or the like to the monk to make him more single-target control based ( I don't know much about monk, just spit-balling here ). Maybe an orb/focus for the Apprentice that gives him four different elemental abilities for light combos.

All-in-all I'd just like more varieties in play styles. Alternate weapons seem like an easy(ish) way to accomplish that.

That's a pretty awesome idea actually. It would definately make dps heroes more interesting 

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From one of the dev streams/notes (forget where), they mentioned the different types of mana so you didn't have to choose between having your hero be viable/building towers.   I would like to see this come to fruition.  As it is right now, I'm going to invest in tower stats not ability stats. But maybe they can adjust stat rolls or something to make building both viable?  Or perhaps having your ability damage scale with level of difficulty/hero level?

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@Interrupt Vector quote:

I really really really miss the different type of Weapons DD1 and DDE have. It would be amazing to have different weapons acting differently in combat!

Trendy has claimed they do intend to add more weapon diversity, how exactly we don't know but this isn't the place they want it to stay.

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Instead of a hero attack speed sphere, I would rather see a weapon modification for overall attack speed. (I.e Attack speed increased by 10% -> would speed up -every- attack animation done by the hero)   

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Weapon Variety like in DD1/E.

Everything else is just tuning in my opinion. More/Less damage, More/Less Resistance, it's all tuning. 

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