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Boost Aura is too OP.

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Boost Aura is too OP.

Even with ONLY the Relic increase the aura is still a MUST have for any build, which is ridiculous when it comes to solo play...

Every elitist build has a Monk boost aura in it... Why? It's op.

Try to answer one of these question...

What tower from Squire do you need in EVERY BUILD? none

What tower from Huntress do you need in EVERY BUILD? none

What tower from Apprentice do you need in EVERY BUILD? none

What tower from Monk do you need in EVERY BUILD? Boost Aura

I said need, and maybe that word is too strong, cause yea, you can probably build without it and win, but ALL the best OP builds include a Boost Aura.

My crappy Relic only gives like 67% increase or something like that, but on my towers that is HUGE. idk... More in the video below... It's a bit lengthy, but I go over my thoughts on it a bit more... Also it's kind of a rant, and there is a little bit of cursing, you are prewarned.

I am talking to some people on stream chat, sorry you cant see what they are saying.

Timestamp of 5:20-5:45 kinda gets most of the information out that I had to say.

Timestamp of 5:57-5:59 I compare the towers with and without auras.

THE VIDEO

All I ask is that you actually watch some of the videos to get  a real understanding of what I am saying, I do try to be fair at times, even going back on some things that I suggest or call op. Trying to put thought into what I am saying...

Let's not make this a troll post guys, can we have a nice debate on the matter? If so, I would appreciate it.

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Most of us who have 100%+ base boosts, farmed the gear pre-patch, when those stats were available on the gear.

With the changes with the last patch, the stats were not reverted on old gear, thus making the boost as powerful as it is.

If I'm not mistaken they plan on addressing that in the future, and will most likely tone back everyones boost.

I do not have to use a boost with my LA/geyser build, but it makes it not take as obnoxiously long to kill things then.

Boosts are an option, not a necessity, but you're gimping yourself if you opt to not use one.

I'm more than happy with boosts, but agree they should be toned back, but it should be something you want on your builds, in my opinion, and should not be nerfed down to the point of it not having a place.

Tone it down, but, in my opinion, it should stay a staple in any decent build.

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And just another question, even if it's necesary in eash build what does it change?? It is not a big trouble, get yourself a monk whit good stats and you are good to go.

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I'm still in favor of them raising the deck cap to at least 4, that way you can have one of each hero type in your deck, if you opt to.

Again, it's not a necessity at times if you build correctly, but it helps speed things up, and that's its design as a whole, which I'm totally okay with it.

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@Tristaris quote:

Most of us who have 100%+ base boosts, farmed the gear pre-patch, when those stats were available on the gear.

With the changes with the last patch, the stats were not reverted on old gear, thus making the boost as powerful as it is.

If I'm not mistaken they plan on addressing that in the future, and will most likely tone back everyones boost.

I do not have to use a boost with my LA/geyser build, but it makes it not take as obnoxiously long to kill things then.

Boosts are an option, not a necessity, but you're gimping yourself if you opt to not use one.

I'm more than happy with boosts, but agree they should be toned back, but it should be something you want on your builds, in my opinion, and should not be nerfed down to the point of it not having a place.

Tone it down, but, in my opinion, it should stay a staple in any decent build.

Yea, in the video I do not have that gear, and I show that I think it is still OP even after the Patched state of the auras.

As stated, I know content can be done without the aura, so your LA/Geyser build (ive seen it before) I know can work great, and do the content without the help of the aura, which is awesome! But in the end as you stated you are gimped if you opt to not use one. So does that make you use them? that gimped feeling? does it make you Need them?


I see you stated you would be ok with toning them down, What do you believe is a reasonable tone down for the auras?

I couldn't quite put a number on it myself, but I would say 40% max at Tier 5? Is that too much? not enough?


Also remember I am talking mainly about solo builds here, because we all know with a 4 man group you only need 1/12 potential characters to have the boost aura.

But with solo builds you are using 33% of your deck to have a Monk with 1 item on him to be effective.


Thanks for the input [[64852,users]] looking forward to talking more with you.

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@[YSRC]Arkazia quote:

And just another question, even if it's necesary in eash build what does it change?? It is not a big trouble, get yourself a monk whit good stats and you are good to go.

Does this mean everyone has to settle with only 2 customizable characters in their deck now? Because we all have to use monk because "It is not a big trouble, get yourself a monk with good stats and you are good to go."

My point is mainly on solo build here.

[[64852,users]] makes a good point of...

@Tristaris quote:

I'm still in favor of them raising the deck cap to at least 4, that way you can have one of each hero type in your deck, if you opt to.

Again, it's not a necessity at times if you build correctly, but it helps speed things up, and that's its design as a whole, which I'm totally okay with it.

With this I would still HAVE to use boost monk in every deck, but at least now I could also play as the other characters in a deck. Right now I have to leave out one of the characters in each of my 3 character decks combos... but with monk's auras being soo good, really I have to use that class as well, only leaving me with 2 characters for customization.


There are some potential combinations being swept under the rug due to the fact you need to put a monk into your deck just for the boost aura.


Huntress, Huntress, Squire?

compared to...

Huntress, Monk, Squire?

Which is a better combo?


The answer is the one with the monk, but in the end both decks should be equal, I should not have to settle with the fact that having a monk in my deck is what makes it the better build.

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I honestly don't see why private games have hero limit restrictions :/ just like we can bring a level one to an HM incursion we should have full access to our hero deck if we are in a private game. I know it was off topic and I apologize.

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(Salt incoming) We all know trendy doesn't work like that. They leave the over powered, unnerfed items in the game as early adopter's benefits.Then balance the game around the guys who have said benefits. It's just a great way to build a brick wall around anyone who didn't buy your game on launch so they can't see end game content.  (end of salt)

Sadly this is one of those things where the only way they can remove the need for a monk on a team is to make another boost type tower on a different characer. A tower that makes other towers stronger is just that, it makes your towers stronger so you can get more out of them. It's why E.V was a MUST have in every nightmare build. because getting double tower effectiveness from 5 towers for the cost of one is simply too good to not take. 

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[[79434,users]]


I was quite happy where auras were before, with max level gear most of us were between 90, and almost 100% boosts, and that was because we had a monk dedicated to that specific build.

I would be quite content with a 75% max boost aura build, with the base being 40-50%.

I believe a 40% at tier 5 is just simply too low, for the extreme mana cost to increase it that much. It's a touchy subject, because you want them to feel worth using, but if they are too low, they just simply are not worth placing then. 500 + mana, for just 40% more effectiveness, and over 1000 mana if you end up using two, that's quite substantial.

As it is, it feels mandatory to have a monk in your build, and that is a problem with the three character deck limit, but if they increased that to four, or even five, then almost everyone that solos, should at least have one monk that can drop an aura.

I personally have no real thought on whether "feeling gimped" is my driving force behind using them, but I'm going to always have a monk in my deck, because of their kit and how useful it is, so why not use it.

I'm going to chalk it up to the poor thought behind character decks, and how if they want people to solo, or co-op, the three hero deck, with more than 3 heroes, naturally making you feel compelled to use this, or that hero.

My opinion? Raise the hero deck limit, bring other defenses up to par with where some are at, or change some altogether. (Example: Squire training dummy, it's terrible, no one should ever use it, and if they are they are wasting mana and DU, things like that are where the real issues lie, in my opinion.)

TL;DR: Increase hero deck limit, tone boost down, but not a hard nerf to uselessness, bring other defenses up to par with stuff people find OP now, or change them.

PS: I'll be interested to see how things pan out with future updates that change boosts, and what they plan on doing with towers that are in a poor position right now.

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@vSyNd1c4t3 quote:



Boost Aura is too OP.

Even with ONLY the Relic increase the aura is still a MUST have for any build, which is ridiculous when it comes to solo play...

Every elitist build has a Monk boost aura in it... Why? It's op.

Try to answer one of these question...

What tower from Squire do you need in EVERY BUILD? none

What tower from Huntress do you need in EVERY BUILD? none

What tower from Apprentice do you need in EVERY BUILD? none

What tower from Monk do you need in EVERY BUILD? Boost Aura

I said need, and maybe that word is too strong, cause yea, you can probably build without it and win, but ALL the best OP builds include a Boost Aura. 


I don't exactly see a way for nerfing the tower in a way that you explain them to be op. Of course the boost aura are going to be used in every build regardless of there boost. Any tower that makes other towers do extra damage is a good tower to use and you would foolish not to use it for the extra boost. I feel like if there was to be a nerf to the boost aura then it should be looked at a different angle. Nerfing their damage boost to the ground would only make them useless and then no one would use them. So I think if the aura were to be nerfed, then the defense units that the aura uses should be increased. This would force the player to make a choice between making more towers and having an aura to boost them. 

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we really needed yet another thread about this?

Yes the boost tower is and has been an unbalanced cost to reward. Until Trendy does a very significant overhaul of it's core mechanics it's not going to matter what you do with % numbers it's going to be something you rather have than not.

</thread>

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we can fix all this with the release of having more mana. 

boost aura becomes more and more a utility the more mana we get instead of a must for every build. 

even leaving the boost as is. hard core players will still get there maxed dps casual players will get to be able to build and upgrade things the way they want to.

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@GetYourWetWipes quote:

we can fix all this with the release of having more mana. 

boost aura becomes more and more a utility the more mana we get instead of a must for every build. 

even leaving the boost as is. hard core players will still get there maxed dps casual players will get to be able to build and upgrade things the way they want to.

this doesn't fix the issue at all, in your proposed scenario at best what you'd do is make it so defenses without a boost are powerful enough to be considered mild overkill (aka you just destroyed any difficulty that might have existed). Which then makes the same build with a few defenses swapped out for boost aura now overkill but to quote spinal tap, overkill "that goes to 11". 

you can have 6 defenses that are upgraded to t5 for say 10k dps each. hypothetical 60k dps total

or

you can have 5 defenses that are upgraded to t5 for 10k each BUT with a boost of 20% to each. same 60k dps that's with a 20% boost that you don't even need a drop of gear to get.  Oh by the way you still have the upgrade mana from def #6 you can put into that boost to bump it up to t5 so now it's what 40% boost.

which would you and everyone else take every time. The only time the boost option gets close to being a side grade is when you're literally only boosting 1 defense.


I think what you were going for was maybe an increase in the number of def units allocated per map.  But again whatever you can do without a boost, becomes even more potent with one.  Without a change to how it functions you can't present a scenario where adding a boost tower is anything but a grossly increased performance.


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The boost has been a problem since DD1. The issue is simply the way it works, for example if you have three defences in the aura, below 33% it's useless, above 33% it's basically a requirement. There's no middle ground.

The only way to balance the tower is change the way it works or get rid of it. A simple nerf or buff will just change when it becomes required, it won't stop it reaching that point

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@EviLGreeNPenguiN quote:
@GetYourWetWipes quote:

we can fix all this with the release of having more mana. 

boost aura becomes more and more a utility the more mana we get instead of a must for every build. 

even leaving the boost as is. hard core players will still get there maxed dps casual players will get to be able to build and upgrade things the way they want to.

I think what you were going for was maybe an increase in the number of def units allocated per map.  But again whatever you can do without a boost, becomes even more potent with one.  Without a change to how it functions you can't present a scenario where adding a boost tower is anything but a grossly increased performance.


i would like to see a large drop in DU and a large increase to mana dropped by wave mobs. to play something other then afk build. i would like to interact with the map im building. this is a tower game after all. (just me)

i find syns post to be very brave. going to war with your own ppl over boosts isnt something most ppl would do. (i like them)

the middle ground for finding a alternative for boost auras would be more mana.  

there are combos you can use to increase damage before a tower is reached. frost towers, Geysers and LA's these all increase damage. because we are not building to protect cores at this point we are building to keep our towers alive and kill the enemies before they kill the towers 

the dps race is real.

how do you solve this problem before/after boost aura has been changed?

dropping more mana would be beneficial to over come this in the short term. TOO give a player the ability to build with out a monks boost... if you are looking for a long term goal for balancing i would say hurry up and wait.

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@GetYourWetWipes quote:

i would like to see a large drop in DU and a large increase to mana dropped by wave mobs. to play something other then afk build. i would like to interact with the map im building. this is a tower game after all. (just me)

i find syns post to be very brave. going to war with your own ppl over boosts isnt something most ppl would do. (i like them)

the middle ground for finding a alternative for boost auras would be more mana.  

there are combos you can use to increase damage before a tower is reached. frost towers, Geysers and LA's these all increase damage. because we are not building to protect cores at this point we are building to keep our towers alive and kill the enemies before they kill the towers 

the dps race is real.

how do you solve this problem before/after boost aura has been changed?

dropping more mana would be beneficial to over come this in the short term. TOO give a player the ability to build with out a monks boost... if you are looking for a long term goal for balancing i would say hurry up and wait.

I think you need to re-read my post that you quoted cause this reply isn't making sense. And I already addressed a lot of it.

I'm not sure who syn is going to war against exactly cause you'd be hard pressed to find someone who can put forth a valid argument about boost auras being balanced in their current state.

As for the line in bold, what are you trying to say? We need to build defenses for our defenses? You're always building with the goal of protecting the core. My scenario with the 6 defenses or 5 def + 1 boost goes for any and all defense types not just "towers". Sadly frost towers with the intro of spheres have become a bit of a joke. Geyser/LightAura combo is good alone, and if again you put a boost in place of 1 of those you just doubled or tripled the bang at a barely noticeable cost.



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As the game currently stands you build your towers and afk until an ogre wave. I think before they begin making changes to any tower they need to make non-ogre waves a threat.

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@rawrifficus quote:

As the game currently stands you build your towers and afk until an ogre wave. I think before they begin making changes to any tower they need to make non-ogre waves a threat.

I'm perfectly fine slaughtering hundreds of minions. It's a tower defense, after all.

I think before they make changes to non ogre waves, to make them a threat, they need to change quite a bit, that way you actually have a way to take care of that threat.

Sorry but I don't feel like sweating bullets on regular waves for an entire game. Hero damage is lackluster, at best. Buff that, and you'll see people become more active with their builds. Why do I want to go hit things for 4k? It's boring, it sucks, hero abilities are boring, etc. I'm quite content with some towers, right now, and I'm totally okay with my towers ripping through most enemies like paper.

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With all solutions what happens with the builds that don't use a monk? saying this as someone who plays a tower dps focused squire I find myself active in the battle phases. because I know that my towers are glass cannons (no pun intended) and although I know that my cannons will rip things apart I always need to watch for kobald swarms and wither beast. I guess my point is while many builds use boost auras there are some that don't. So although a fix may correct the problem with auras if it blankets to effect all builds it could just make them even more so required. 

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Well it's not really about being OP or not, it's that anything that buffs or debuffs will most likely become a necessary thing. 

So i think the issue you trying to address isn't it being OP, it's like in previous threads, the issue of necessary defenses to the game. Do you think such thing should exist? A defense that is almost mandatory for all builds? 

I am a little opposed to it, but at the same time i really don't mind. I don't like the idea, specially 'cause it leans us towards turtle builds, but on the other hand, I won't die with such thing happening

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@PrincessAzula quote:

can someone show me this op gear theyre refering to?

it's not so much a gear issue as it is just the mechanics of how the monks boost aura works. But if you were able to collect some +boost% gear (helm and wep) prior to them moving the stat to only on relic/trinket type armor you could get some really high +% which further draws attention to the unbalance that is the boost aura.

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