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Odai

More Horizontal Tower Progression

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Hello guys/girls!

I think we need more progression/customization for towers, it feels boring to be the same class that everyone else is. While i think the Spheres system is a nice start, it could be used more effectifly. (Im really in favor of version 2.0 of the skilltree i did :D)

Did a bit MS Paint magic as example:
Tower%20Sheet.jpg

Or version 2.0 ^^ (Each 5 Hero Levels you can choose from 1 Trait/Gambit + Spheres for Towers)
DD2%20Towers.png

The round fields are for Spheres we allready have/will get in the future, that are tower specific.
The rectangular slots should be predefined alterations to the tower from which you can choose 1 of 3 for each line.
There should be no plain + tower stats be involved (maybe the "gambit" system, which gives towers + and - effects), because horizontal progression is much more fun then simple stats buffing.

What to you think about such a system?

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All for it and I 100% agree, progression in DD2 feels very stale and everyone seems very samey, there's no uniqueness between builders/builds etc.

The uber spheres were a sort of start but we need more and like OP said, not just stats buffing, even % range % damage are boring options to choose from.

Not saying this is a good suggestion but something like: Your flameburst tower loses xx%  attack speed  and xx% attack damage but instead fires Shockburst, increasing the damage the target takes by xx% with each hit.

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I like ur idea Odai and im 100% agree with it, but Black Man: I dont thing its a good idea to buff and debuff a tower at the same time. it feels like it doesnt change anything. Like you do the same dmg only with an other effect.


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@Guggelhupf quote:

I like ur idea Odai and im 100% agree with it, but Black Man: I dont thing its a good idea to buff and debuff a tower at the same time. it feels like it doesnt change anything. Like you do the same dmg only with an other effect.


If you look at other games, having positives whilst also having drawbacks is a good way to create build diversity, you have to also remember that using something like that, you could simply use flamebursts as damage buffers and have earthshatters as your main form of damage etc etc. Also it allows for multiple builders in party play, someone builds the damage towers and you provide utility to the lanes by your "shockburst" towers increasing the damage your other party members/towers deal.

If you just make it so everything is a buff, you get cookie cutter builds and still have "This is best in all situations". You can't really have diversity without having negative aspects

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There are many possibilitys to change the tower effect without just buffing damage.

And buffing and debuffing at the same time can make sence like "rapid fire: double the speed, half the damage"

Even if it should not be too high increase in stats, im sure nobody would call "op" at a barrier with more HP or something like that. ^^


Also funny stuff would be switching elements of the towers. Instea of lightning aura you could have a frost/fire aura which can open up new combos.



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@Odai quote:

Also funny stuff would be switching elements of the towers. Instea of lightning aura you could have a frost/fire aura which can open up new combos.

I actually just made a suggestion which was similar to this but it wasn't changing the element of the tower. But I like where this is going

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@Lastoria quote:

I actually just made a suggestion which was similar to this but it wasn't changing the element of the tower. But I like where this is going

Jeah your idear would actually work with mine. You could add spheres that change a tower, like they did with the uber spheres. This way you could choose your own tower setup, which would be great for more viarity. :)

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I want to see this happen so much.

Agree on the plus 1, minus 1 approach of another poster up there.

Some of the things I want to see:

+projectile speed -firing rate

+firing rate -firing arc

+penetration -area of effect

Limited ammo on "towers" and increase effectiveness

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I like this idea. It could be a nice way to personalise towers towards solo and group play experience. For example, I could make a support cannonball tower that slows enemies with less damage. Nice. I'm just wondering if Trendy would be keen for this, seeing that they have a MOBA roster of characters (some with towers) already in the bank?

Carry on.

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@cometmarcher2468 quote:

i have to admit this seems like a good idea, but i would also like to see stats given. cause lets face it, if you put out all these tower function change specs then everyone is most likely going to single out the best and then everyone is the same. adding in a meager amount of stat increase points allows for say; an even more powerful fireball function change, or say; a weak but immensely fast tower.

thing is, that is opens up more possibilities and that is what makes everyone unique. 

Could work but i would avoid pure things like: + power or +speed, because all people would go for it.

A chooseable line could be: +range or +arc or + anti air ability. Something that really lets you costumize your build.

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@Odai quote:And buffing and debuffing at the same time can make sence like "rapid fire: double the speed, half the damage"



this makes no sense. it doesnt change anything in the dmg...

A better idea has SorakaPlz like: +projectile speed -firing rate / +firing rate -firing arc / +penetration -area of effect
this realy change ur playstyle. Or change the element from the fire tower (mage) to frost/lightning/water or choose from +aoe / +firespeed / +?

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@Guggelhupf quote:


@Odai quote:And buffing and debuffing at the same time can make sence like "rapid fire: double the speed, half the damage"



this makes no sense. it doesnt change anything in the dmg...

A better idea has SorakaPlz like: +projectile speed -firing rate / +firing rate -firing arc / +penetration -area of effect
this realy change ur playstyle. Or change the element from the fire tower (mage) to frost/lightning/water or choose from +aoe / +firespeed / +?

well it does if your towers have special effects like the appr. earth tower which can knock up enemys with the sphere, double the speed would transform it into a knockup machine ^^ and im sure there are other towers that could profit from that.

Like i said, everything just examples, there are many possibilites how it could be a usefull system. :)

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Dunno how i missed this, this is wonderful man, also I like the idea of it being applied the way you want for the tower you want instead.

While i might not exactly agree with more towers per hero (still dream of a world with a lot of characters and no hero deck limit) i think that changing each tower the way you want is a nice idea and goes in the way of the game where they are against a character specialization in such way that people would have a hero for a single tower instead of having a hero for multiple functions. 

Tho i kinda like point systems too.

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@Gutu quote:

Dunno how i missed this, this is wonderful man, also I like the idea of it being applied the way you want for the tower you want instead.

While i might not exactly agree with more towers per hero (still dream of a world with a lot of characters and no hero deck limit) i think that changing each tower the way you want is a nice idea and goes in the way of the game where they are against a character specialization in such way that people would have a hero for a single tower instead of having a hero for multiple functions. 

Tho i kinda like point systems too.

Thank you :)

Yes i think you are right, if we have much more heroes we would not need more towers per hero. ^^


@T-Chimp quote:

I like this idea. It could be a nice way to personalise towers towards solo and group play experience. For example, I could make a support cannonball tower that slows enemies with less damage. Nice. I'm just wondering if Trendy would be keen for this, seeing that they have a MOBA roster of characters (some with towers) already in the bank?

Carry on.

support cannonball tower could have an "ice sphere" which lets him shoot big snowballs, which then can slow enemys, that would be really nice to see. :D

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Updated OP with a better version of a Skilltree!  (which i like much much better ^^)

Here also some idear fo the multiple choise lines:
- 10% from Tower HP (stat) as extra damage/range or speed
- 5% from Tower Damage (stat) added to Hero damage/ability damage/HP
- +10% attack speed for -x% range/damage/hp
- 50% of tower damage convertet to Fire/Water/shock damage (would be very nice with the new resistence system)
- 15% chance to reflect full attack from melee/ranged/air attacks

Make some other examples please ^^

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I hope this isn't too far removed from OP's line of thought, but how about tower upgrade trees? i.e. choose between 2 or 3 different upgrade options at tier 4 or 5

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@rlglinski3 quote:

I hope this isn't too far removed from OP's line of thought, but how about tower upgrade trees? i.e. choose between 2 or 3 different upgrade options at tier 4 or 5

this trees are thought for each tower individually and you choose 1 of 3 traits for each 5 level.

Or i didnt understand what you mean. (thats why i like to make pictures :D)

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@Odai quote:


@rlglinski3 quote:

I hope this isn't too far removed from OP's line of thought, but how about tower upgrade trees? i.e. choose between 2 or 3 different upgrade options at tier 4 or 5

this trees are thought for each tower individually and you choose 1 of 3 traits for each 5 level.

Or i didnt understand what you mean. (thats why i like to make pictures :D)

i think you've got it.  It's an idea stolen from other tower defense games that adds more diversity and customization to the playing field.  Maybe there could be an option to switch between two different tower types  (for a nominal fee) once you reach that tier if you feel the situation dictates. 

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@rlglinski3 quote:

i think you've got it.  It's an idea stolen from other tower defense games that adds more diversity and customization to the playing field.  Maybe there could be an option to switch between two different tower types  (for a nominal fee) once you reach that tier if you feel the situation dictates. 

Mmm i dont think i have seen that System on other TD's so far, only straight upgrades mostly as far as i can remember. ^^

But i saw it on some RPG's where you get multiple chooise's. ^^

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I totally agree with this concept; it would be a great step-up for dd2. It brings more diversity and will to grind further to unlock better upgrades for towers for more complex builds and map; so you can adapt to it better than the conventional skill spheres. Again, we need this :))

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