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Lockboxes (Pets & Dragons)


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After playing the whole weekend, I am kinda annoyed by the lockboxes. I just sell them. Don't ask me for specific reasons, but I rather pay gold or money for costume DLCs rather than more loot in my games.

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Just pretend they're mini chests full of 500 gold - I started liking them a lot more after that.

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@Simplechoices quote:

I like them.  I get so many of them though, I wish I could open them with cash.

You can.  Gems are a premium currency that you gain by spending money.  The choice is either a key (9 wyvern tokens) or Gems.

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Really dislike this system. It just stinks of cheap f2p design. This, combined with time gating, is some of the worst f2p "mechanics". I really hope you guys reconsider this whole f2p model. If you want a good f2p model, look at Path of Exile. Remove all of the f2p stuff from the gameplay and just sell cosmetic stuff. Trying to tie the pay models into a game mechanic is really annoying.

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@Svenn quote:

Really dislike this system. It just stinks of cheap f2p design. This, combined with time gating, is some of the worst f2p "mechanics". I really hope you guys reconsider this whole f2p model. If you want a good f2p model, look at Path of Exile. Remove all of the f2p stuff from the gameplay and just sell cosmetic stuff. Trying to tie the pay models into a game mechanic is really annoying.

But... that's *exactly* what Trendy has done...? Lockboxes only contain cosmetic items.

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@gigazelle quote:


@Svenn quote:

Really dislike this system. It just stinks of cheap f2p design. This, combined with time gating, is some of the worst f2p "mechanics". I really hope you guys reconsider this whole f2p model. If you want a good f2p model, look at Path of Exile. Remove all of the f2p stuff from the gameplay and just sell cosmetic stuff. Trying to tie the pay models into a game mechanic is really annoying.

But... that's *exactly* what Trendy has done...? Lockboxes only contain cosmetic items.

Yes, but
1) they've tied it to the in-game loot system. It's another item that drops. It's part of the gameplay instead of an abstract layer. It detracts from the experience when I get loot and go "Oh, can't actually use that unless I pay money for it..."
2) the drops from the chest are random. If it's something you are going to pay real money for (gems) you shouldn't have a random chance to get what you want, you should get exactly what you want out of it.

This lockbox system has helped to kill quite a few MMOs for me. This is one of the reasons I quit GW2 after being hyped for years and playing for almost 2 years... they started adding a ton of stuff as lockbox exclusives. I don't know how much of the DD2 stuff is exclusive (or if any is right now), but even so the 2 points above stand.

I'm not averse to f2p if it's done right. Path of Exile is the only game that's really done it right that I've seen, though. And that's why I've given them well over $600 at this point.

In general, gameplay and pay should be completely separate and pay model should never affect the actual gameplay. If those are kept separate I will throw tons of money at something fun (which DD2 is). If they aren't, I just won't play the game as it's not worth it.

I realize this may come off as harsh or whatever, but it's because I really loved DD1 and I like a lot of DD2 right now. I want it to be amazing, and I don't want f2p to ruin any of that.

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I like the idea behind them, but with the current rate at which we earn wyvern tokens and the value of gems, I doubt many of them will be getting opened.

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@Svenn quote:


@gigazelle quote:


@Svenn quote:

Really dislike this system. It just stinks of cheap f2p design. This, combined with time gating, is some of the worst f2p "mechanics". I really hope you guys reconsider this whole f2p model. If you want a good f2p model, look at Path of Exile. Remove all of the f2p stuff from the gameplay and just sell cosmetic stuff. Trying to tie the pay models into a game mechanic is really annoying.

But... that's *exactly* what Trendy has done...? Lockboxes only contain cosmetic items.

Yes, but
1) they've tied it to the in-game loot system. It's another item that drops. It's part of the gameplay instead of an abstract layer. It detracts from the experience when I get loot and go "Oh, can't actually use that unless I pay money for it..."
2) the drops from the chest are random. If it's something you are going to pay real money for (gems) you shouldn't have a random chance to get what you want, you should get exactly what you want out of it.

This lockbox system has helped to kill quite a few MMOs for me. This is one of the reasons I quit GW2 after being hyped for years and playing for almost 2 years... they started adding a ton of stuff as lockbox exclusives. I don't know how much of the DD2 stuff is exclusive (or if any is right now), but even so the 2 points above stand.

I'm not averse to f2p if it's done right. Path of Exile is the only game that's really done it right that I've seen, though. And that's why I've given them well over $600 at this point.

In general, gameplay and pay should be completely separate and pay model should never affect the actual gameplay. If those are kept separate I will throw tons of money at something fun (which DD2 is). If they aren't, I just won't play the game as it's not worth it.

I realize this may come off as harsh or whatever, but it's because I really loved DD1 and I like a lot of DD2 right now. I want it to be amazing, and I don't want f2p to ruin any of that.

There is nothing wrong with having a box that gives you a random appearance item, its simply all about how it's implemented. It's not "exclusive" as you can simply buy it so lets nip that comparison right away. The problem is that you don't get enough keys equal to how many of them you get. That's it! That's the only problem. If you could open 1 every 2 matches of Betsy the feeling would drop away drastically. As you said "Oh, can't actually use that". Why can't you? Because it takes too long and isn't worth it. So, lets shorten the time it takes, make Keys a great deal more easier to acquire and that should make it more enjoyable for you, yeah?

Simply because you don't like the system doesn't mean it's that bad. It's like people hating anything related to "dailies" or how people dislike the Skill Sphere system and cry for a roll back.
All they need is proper feedback and a great deal of tweaks.

Let's not flaunt amounts of money around as it holds no baring on the conversation. It's like me saying I gave the flash game Adventure Quest $32,000. There are players who don't HAVE ANY assortment of money to give to the game even though they want to. Let's not remind them of it.

The devs gave all players a means to an end. A means to buy appearance items and a means to get them by playing. They're already thinking of players in that regard unlike many other game developers.

Free to play isn't going to ruin the game, don't be so over dramatic.
No updates... will.
Lack of content... will.
Unfair mechanics... will.
Price gouging... will.
Unlock pay walls... will.
Not listening to feedback... will.
Having a lockbox? Won't.

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At first I loved the boxes. Then I blew through all my free in-game currency. I probably could have bought all the skins I would have wanted for less in-game currency. I think the box price should be lowered. The reason I think this is that  it randomly rewards you with a accessory piece. I found a lot of repeats. Repeats sell for about 2000 gold so that is nice. I kind of was hoping to gets some certain pieces. A piece that cost 250 to unlock vs 150 a pop random chance. If you put in real money purchase ability like you plan, the key will = $1.50. If you lower the price people might feel more inclined to spend the money on random chance accessories.

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  • 2 weeks later...

After looking at what I "can" get in lock boxes, I feel no motivation to get valuable wyvrn tokens to unlock them and I'd rather just be able to buy accessory parts straight up than take my chance buying keys for lock boxes.  Some serious work needs to be done to make the boxes of interest if I'm going to support them.  The current method a) floods you with too many b) are a little confusing to see what you might get (20 options to scroll through?) c) are inferior to current other uses of wyvrn tokens d) I'd rather spend $ directly knowing I'll get the accessories I want than buying keys.


Currently I have not opened any lockboxes.

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I would like accessories more if they were prettier, offered a more varied change to the character to the point that if a friend shows up on their favored squire, I recognize them on sight. As it is, most outfits look about exactly the same.


Needs more color choices. Just please god no not the dye system like before. We have enough inventory option problems as is with our random loot and small amount of created heros allowed.


I feel like having even one or two more color options on each item would vastly increase their appeal no matter how difficult or expensive they are. Atm I feel generally they're too lackluster to really be pleased about. Mostly I just want to cover up the squires heart shirt with a proper plate XD.

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I'm not sure if I like them to compete with Uber Spheres. Most of us would much rather spend their tokens on power-ups instead of accessories. On the other hand, I think it is a very good and legitimate way to incite the players to spend some money on the game without causing P2W issues. I spent some of the blue stuff on the Apprentice Lockbox and got a Fedora out of it (while we are at it, PLEASE introduce an upgrade to the Fedora that gives the Apprentice a fitting neckbeard), which was the accessory I really did not want to end up with, so the randomness in combination with real money might lead to disappointing results for future players. Maybe give the player the choice to select an accessory slot before the RNG kicks in, so we have some control over what we are gambling for.

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Can only be unlocked through bull***.  Drop pretty frequently.  Contain nothing of value.

Overall opion:

MEH

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  • 2 months later...

I feel like the model is unnecessary.  In DD1 there seemed to be no problem in terms of keeping the cash items to the cash shop, and not waved about. I've never even been to end-game and don't know how to get keys, so all I see is that gem cost instead.  To put it into perspective, I was getting boxes in Nimbus reach on Easy.  If you're going to have the only alternative to cash being something you have no idea about getting because you're new to the game (Halfway at least for my case), something needs to shift a bit. Yes you can sell them, yes they fetch decent coin, but that doesn't change that feeling of getting the box for the first time and going to your forge thinking it'll be a random usable item only to see cosmetics and a gem button.

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I feel like there are two main reasons why I am not using lockboxes and do not intend to ever open a lock box.

1 - Random

I understand skinner boxing and that it does keep people engaged. However if i have to pay gems (i.e. real money) then i want to be assured that i get the thing i am going for otherwise it is not worth the risk to me. Selling outfits IMO would be a much better way to go rather than doing the lock boxes in this regard. I would be willing to pay 200-250 gems for one specific piece rather than 150 and never get what i want.


2  - Tokens

I realize that having keys for boxes in the token shop is supposed to be an added bonus for end game where you don't have to use gems for the boxes however most dailies require you to be close to endgame to really have a shot at actually completing them. My first set of quests on my first character was 2/3 to do things in incursion mode. (??) when i hadn't even been through the campaign yet. Meaning that you have to be at end game to really start earning the tokens but then you have to farm end game to get tokens for spheres and people will be tired of the game long before they have enough tokes to care about opening the boxes.


I agree with Svenn where having the lockboxes is a constant reminder to use gems in the game (however slight it is for some people.) I would prefer to have the pay model and gameplay model separate but that would encourage development more for the pay model because then people could actually eat.

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The idea of lockboxes is great. In my other favorite game there are treasure balls which can be opened by keys. Those key have to be purchased with real money. The treasure balls contain cosmetics but also cosmetics which cannot be bought in the cash shop.


I don't think the lockboxes' random content will cause problems. The price to open them is completely ok. The reason why I (at the current state) won't ever open them is because I cannot mix the accessoires I get from them with my current skins. As soon as I know I can mix any accessoire with my Dragonfall skin/Survivor skin/Pirate skin/any other premium skin I will be interested in lockboxes again.


Another point which would make lockboxes more desirable: let them contain some accessoires we cannot buy from the Seamstress. Rare items are always a magent. Some accessoires should drop more often, some less often. Just don't tell the players which items exactly are in there - just tell us there 'are' lockbox-only items.

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These are horrible, too many items in one box, the odds of getting what you want is too high.

Then you can't even use the items with your sets, pointless.

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To be honest I don't feel the need for these to just harbor silly cosmetics, most of the gems I have spent have gone towards bag upgrades, and occasionally the mythical accessory (Like the monk's avatar reference which I hope to Max out someday) but would prefer if you could get the cosmetics like how the first game was, through challenge mode, maybe instead of getting the desired cosmetics through lock boxes you can obtain them with your normal rewards from Onslaught or higher rounds of Onslaught, but the thought of paying real money for a small amount of Pixels ( albeit something that TF2 is there for) doesn't always entice me has earning a mythical hat from beating wave 15 of Onslaught or something insane like that

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its not that they appear too often because you can still get some doubles from the chests, but the fact that you can only open them with gems and tokens is whats wrong with this system. there should be  way of opening them with gold or by picking up keys whitch would have to be rare drops or something like that

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@MasterOfLazyness quote:

It's interestingly weird that these chests drop not only so insanely often but also the types of chests in general.

See, a while back during a Devstream, a gentlemen said that they didn't want people getting say, skins, for a character they didn't have or whatever it was. My point is, it almost feels like we shouldn't be getting chests for a character type that isn't listed in our Hero Deck. If I'm not working on the mage/haven't even bothered to make one, I technically don't even have the character. Yet I keep getting chests for them. Yes, yes, I'm aware this can technically apply to mage gear as well but that's less of an issue as it can easily be used for Upgrading. These chests however, only have one purpose and can't be used for anything else unless you just sell them for gold.

The sheer amount of common versions of these chest need to be toned down slightly or give us a different means of getting them. Say, only certain mobs drop them now, like Ogres, Healers and other battle changing mobs. I personally don't know of a perfect solution to this as, we all want what's inside of them. It just takes a while to be able to open one. So, it should take less time to get the chests but close enough to equal the amount of time it takes to open one.

If you're going to have a limit on how many Wyvern Tokens we can acquire in a week then there might need to be a slightly similar limit in just how many of these chests we can gain entirely. I don't want to be able to only open, say, 9 chests but can get 20,000 of them. Gold comes easily enough even without the chests.

That's another thing, if you don't want people having insane amounts of gold, that's also another reason to dial the drop rate down slightly.

I'm sure people will disagree with the nonsense I've spouted and I'm okay with that. It's just I'm tired of seeing them drop as I'm still unable to enjoy what's inside. Weather you can agree with me or not, you at least should understand how I feel.

i know what you mean but the insane amounts of gold are not cuz of these chests since they are worth only 10 gold

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@pepijn.k quote:i know what you mean but the insane amounts of gold are not cuz of these chests since they are worth only 10 gold

They were worth 500 in sell value at one point.  That's where the "insane amount" came from.

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I couldnt find a way to open them with Gold (doesnt seem to be possible anymore?), and the Wyvern Tokens seem to valuable to use them before I have bought the Ubers. 

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@Brahlam quote:

I couldnt find a way to open them with Gold (doesnt seem to be possible anymore?), and the Wyvern Tokens seem to valuable to use them before I have bought the Ubers. 

Lockboxes have never been able to be opened with gold - only gems or keys from the adventurer.

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What happens if you already have the accessory ? Or does the box guarantee you an accessory you don't have ?

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