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Skill Spheres (Pets & Dragons)

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In the Pets and Dragons update, we introduced Skill Spheres, a way for the players to customize their Hero with stats, abilities and new towers. How do you feel about this change?

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Spheres seem like a really great idea for an end-game design; it's something to add on a lot more specifics to our build.

With that in mind, however, it destroys the leveling experience.  I couldn't even do the new maps yesterday because I had to grind out enough gold for the spheres.

As something solely for endgame, it's wonderful.  As something that *replaces* a talent or spec system for leveling, it's disappointing.  Gold sinks are fine when you're dealing with players who have a lot of gold to spend.  They aren't pleasant for new players.

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1. Spheres need rebalance. You can now stack 3 stat builder bonuses and only one special in Large slot, which are significantly weaker that old spec nodes. This favours raw damage over any sophisticated strategy.

2. Spheres are too eays to come by (in fact, endgame players can just buy whatever they please). They are also all all the same and have flat stats, which makes them not satisfying to obtain. I posted an idea to make them rare lootable objects here.

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@reallycantjump quote:

my dps huntress feels weaker. I miss having something like at 40% chance to get a charged primary for free. Now I have a little 15% chance with a large sphere slot. I went from feeling powerful to pretty weak. (I haven't unlocked the uber yet so I'm not sure how that will chance my experience)

I feel like that sphere is glitched. I haven't seen a single charged shot in an entire game of 5 waves.

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little Sphere:

Nice, good idea an nice improvements.

Even if they could be a bit more effective for example the towers working with % upgrades (like 15% 30% 50%) for towers

and not 100 little points...

Medium Sphere:

Waouw that's nice, my monk got mega aura's but again work with % not +100points

Large Sphere:

WERE ARE MY STUFFS, my long range attack for my huntress, or my nice working self healing blockades...?

Now you have to buy one and you can not use more then one.

That's why I DPS A LOT LESS WITH MY DPS CHARACTER THAN BEFORE THE UPDATE. 

Why don't you did like for medium sphere but more special then and let us chose our capacities 

Uber Sphere:

Do i need the become angry because you guys are trying to make from our Dungeon Defenders a cash game?

Trying to make from the best upgrading idea you found (Didn't saw the Monk Uber yet but the three other looks awesome) something quiet impossible for usual players to have... Put them a 25.000.000.000 credits if you want it's the same it's not possible for people who plays 3 hours a week... Unless you want them to getting bored?

So after all very good idea but need some changes to be a perfect one


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Large Spheres seem to stop working every time we switch characters. Have to remove the sphere and re-equip it to get its effect.

I can reproduce this easily with the Huntress 15% charged shot proc sphere.

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Whats the point of having the multiple ranks when the prices are so close on a per size basis?

yea you could buy some rank 1 spheres but really for a very minimal amount of gold more you can just buy the best rank. Unless there's a level requirement that I over looked? Which if that is the case then you're better off just waiting to hit the required level and then buying again the max rank.

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I really feel that x2 Large spheres are required.

With only one its removed alot of flexibility from how we can use turrets
e.g No Freeze + Knockup, No Long Range + Crit strikes etc.

Having x2 would also mean that more large sphere abilities could be added later on allowing for some even more interesting combos.

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Skill spheres along with gear boosts removed so much challenge from the game its insane. I would say I had decent gear are patch especially my monk who had nearly 700 DPs base aura damage. You gave us an option to get 300 free tower stats and along with that you buffed lar and buff aura Bonus. Before at least my towers had a challenge in incursions. Now my only worry is does my boost aura have enough health to last the wave

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Inb4 Skill Spheres are ninja buff to squire, since his large spheres (old passive/spec) are quite useless. While other classes with good passives are forced to choose one of many, like huntress' long range/charge up shot, and apprentices flameburst/freeze/knock up.

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squire's shield block sphere is unique but Grand Ma.ster allow you to buy 2 from her, which is a rip off

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@Valthejean quote:

Spheres seem like a really great idea for an end-game design; it's something to add on a lot more specifics to our build.

With that in mind, however, it destroys the leveling experience.  I couldn't even do the new maps yesterday because I had to grind out enough gold for the spheres.

As something solely for endgame, it's wonderful.  As something that *replaces* a talent or spec system for leveling, it's disappointing.  Gold sinks are fine when you're dealing with players who have a lot of gold to spend.  They aren't pleasant for new players.

I have 4 chars at lvl 19 and I could easily afford every sphere where I can have a place. 

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I think there is a problem with understanding the text. Example:

(M) Squire Defense Range Sphere I

Increases the Range of all the Squire's Projectile Defenses by +105%. Requires a Medium Slot.

For me this means that I get my range doubled. From what I see I get plus 5% from my base value... at least I think it is like that. If yes, then please write "by 5%". Otherwise this is very very very confusing. ...and I am not sure if these 5% are currently even worth mentioning. Actually I wouldn't even realize if I would just skip this little range improvement.

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If the spheres had multiple different stats on each, that would be cool.  Right now with only 3 small slots there are not many unique combinations to be had in terms of stat bonuses.

The larger slots (medium included) are ok in my opinion because I can see more unique ones that can be created for the future.

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If the spheres had multiple different stats on each, that would be cool. Right now with only 3 small slots there are not many unique combinations to be had in terms of stat bonuses.

That was the point - to specialize in specific stat or ability. You know, we already have old loot with multiple balanced stats on each.

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You gave apprentice anti-air spheres, but not monk? My skyguard monk is very upset right now.

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@Dreizehn quote:

I think there is a problem with understanding the text. Example:

(M) Squire Defense Range Sphere I

Increases the Range of all the Squire's Projectile Defenses by +105%. Requires a Medium Slot.

For me this means that I get my range doubled. From what I see I get plus 5% from my base value... at least I think it is like that. If yes, then please write "by 5%". Otherwise this is very very very confusing. ...and I am not sure if these 5% are currently even worth mentioning. Actually I wouldn't even realize if I would just skip this little range improvement.

It is 5% and 10% increase for the two available. You can also equip two copies of the same sphere so 20% range increase for both level 2 spheres. Unfortunately while you are placing the defense the increased range isn't shown. It is bumped up after placing the defense, easily seen by pressing shift. 

As for your confusing jumble of poor grammar that I think is you implying the spheres are weak and not worth using. They most definitely make a difference and a large one with upgraded towers.

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@Hecate quote:


@Dreizehn quote:

I think there is a problem with understanding the text. Example:

(M) Squire Defense Range Sphere I

Increases the Range of all the Squire's Projectile Defenses by +105%. Requires a Medium Slot.

For me this means that I get my range doubled. From what I see I get plus 5% from my base value... at least I think it is like that. If yes, then please write "by 5%". Otherwise this is very very very confusing. ...and I am not sure if these 5% are currently even worth mentioning. Actually I wouldn't even realize if I would just skip this little range improvement.

It is 5% and 10% increase for the two available. You can also equip two copies of the same sphere so 20% range increase for both level 2 spheres. Unfortunately while you are placing the defense the increased range isn't shown. It is bumped up after placing the defense, easily seen by pressing shift. 

As for your confusing jumble of poor grammar that I think is you implying the spheres are weak and not worth using. They most definitely make a difference and a large one with upgraded towers.

I am very sorry if my grammar is not able to satisfy you. Actually this is not a problem of grammar but of formulation. It is absolutely no problem for me if you do not understand this. ^^ +105% mathematically means multipyied by 2.05 while +5% means multiplyed by 1.05. I hope you understand it better now. :-)

From what I know this game is aiming at a wide audience so confusing captions are not very suitable.

What I did: Place a canon, press shift and mark the maximum range with another defense. That's the easiest and laziest way. After equipping the one of those 105% range spheres I have also built a new canon next to the old one and the increase in range was not worth mentioning.

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First post, logged in to give feedback on the spheres. The low rank versions of spheres are a new player trap, and really shouldn't exist. My friends and I get to a high enough level to unlock a sphere slot, how exciting! We all immediately buy one.

Fast forward to a few levels later, where one of us realizes that a strictly better version of the spheres we payed all our gold for is now available to us. Feels pretty bad to know we fell into a trap purchase.

Fast forward to now. None of us are buying /any/ spheres while leveling. 10k gold is a lot while leveling up, and to spend it now knowing we will need to replace it later...no thanks, just going to suffer through without.

Anecdote aside, this is not a kind experience to put new players through. It makes us feel betrayed by the system, and /then/ makes us ignore an important feature of the game in order to not be throwing resources away.

If there are power concerns for spheres, perhaps make them scale up with hero level? Or make them cost less, with an upgrade cost as you go?


Thanks for listening.

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@Djinnistorm quote:

First post, logged in to give feedback on the spheres. The low rank versions of spheres are a new player trap, and really shouldn't exist. My friends and I get to a high enough level to unlock a sphere slot, how exciting! We all immediately buy one.

Fast forward to a few levels later, where one of us realizes that a strictly better version of the spheres we payed all our gold for is now available to us. Feels pretty bad to know we fell into a trap purchase.

Fast forward to now. None of us are buying /any/ spheres while leveling. 10k gold is a lot while leveling up, and to spend it now knowing we will need to replace it later...no thanks, just going to suffer through without.

Anecdote aside, this is not a kind experience to put new players through. It makes us feel betrayed by the system, and /then/ makes us ignore an important feature of the game in order to not be throwing resources away.

If there are power concerns for spheres, perhaps make them scale up with hero level? Or make them cost less, with an upgrade cost as you go?


Thanks for listening.

The feedback of new player are important to see if the progress is smooth. 

I think the same point that you made goes for upgrading gear, don't do it on low lvl items because you'll change it very quickly. It's something you learn as you play.

About money, don't worry keep selling items, as you lvl up you'll gain a lot more.

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Skill Spheres are a pretty good system, I see more potential in it than I did in the talents. It's alot more fun to see and slot the spheres that it was to just click on a talent and spend the points but the system needs tweaking especially the scaling of some of the spheres.

A few ideas to augment the system include

  • Tie an exp system to each of the spheres. This way when you purchase a sphere you can then level it up to boost its effects up to a cap for example T1 - 5%, T2 - 10%, T3 - 15%. This should begin from the second you slot the spheres and it would also help combat the "noob trap" that people are experiencing right now as they level up
  • Provide a 2nd large slot. This suggestion has come up alot because the huntress and apprentice have both been hit hard. The apprentice has lost the ability to combo towers and the huntresses DPS has taken a hit because they can only one one of the previous 3 talents.
  • Instead of slot size being tied to type of sphere tie it to the strength/efficiency of the sphere. Small - Small boost, Medium - Moderate Boost and Large - Significant boost (Keeping the number of slots the same) and then let players slot any sphere into any slot. This will give a greater diversity in builds because people can either slot all stats, all ability augments, all tower augments or mix and match to their hearts content. Ubers would remain as they are since they completely change a tower.

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At some point, you need to be able to sell/dispose of old low level skill spheres you do not use anymore since they become useless at endgame and are a hindrance when specing.

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Basically I do love the change because it feels like it has great potential. Somehow it reminds me a bit of Final Fantasy X' sphere grid although it is not that complicated. ^^

But it may still be possible to create some kind of sphere grid where we have to decide which way to take.




@Thalligo quote:

At some point, you need to be able to sell/dispose of old low level skill spheres you do not use anymore since they become useless at endgame and are a hindrance when specing.

Yes, this would be great.

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Bring back Talents in some form.. use Spheres as a super bonus.. you find them or do quests to get them.. buying them just seems meh...

i'd like to see both in the game but eventually you are still going to see cookie cutter builds that require certain items to work.. right now spending so much on spheres just seems bad for a fresh player.. do i upgrade my items.. do i buy spheres.. hell a new player probably doesnt even know to level several characters at once to work out you can use the same spheres on all characters..

Make the spheres more generic. yeah i get the ranks you dont want a level 1 player using a sphere from a 25.. have it so you can upgrade your sphere at a reduced price depending what upgrade you are up to.. and have it only use the maximum you design for the player.. i have a level 25 sphere but this character is only level 1 so only use level 1 stats..

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@LJMjollnir quote:

Bring back Talents in some form.. use Spheres as a super bonus.. you find them or do quests to get them.. buying them just seems meh...

@LJMjollnir quote:

Make the spheres more generic. yeah i get the ranks you dont want a level 1 player using a sphere from a 25.. have it so you can upgrade your sphere at a reduced price depending what upgrade you are up to.. and have it only use the maximum you design for the player.. i have a level 25 sphere but this character is only level 1 so only use level 1 stats..

I would not really miss the talents if you sphere skills would follow caracter progression. You could even have the skill spheres level up with xp instead of buying more powerful ones :


[[57784,users]] quote:

    Tie an exp system to each of the spheres. This way when you purchase a sphere you can then level it up to boost its effects up to a cap for example T1 - 5%, T2 - 10%, T3 - 15%. This should begin from the second you slot the spheres and it would also help combat the "noob trap" that people are experiencing right now as they level up

max level could be 25 for small/medium sphere, 5 for large sphere and 1 for the uber sphere.


[[57784,users]] quote:

Provide a 2nd large slot. This suggestion has come up alot because the huntress and apprentice have both been hit hard. The apprentice has lost the ability to combo towers and the huntresses DPS has taken a hit because they can only one one of the previous 3 talents.

Same, I would prefer having 2 large skills sphere, with large skill sphere being bonus for each tower or for hero abilities. Unlocking large sphere slot at lvl 20 would be better.

Small sphere are fine by me being stat only. The tricky part would be their numbers. For or against +300 to power defense ?

Medium sphere could be generic non-stat all character improvement like current more xp/ more gold, more range ...



As for their aquisition, you could unlock them during the campaign for the small/medium ones and on other challenges for the large/uber ones. A lore like "Defender, you have discovered an unknown relic, maybe its power is still intact. Bring it to X in your social tavern." And then X (don't remember vendor name), would identify the sphere for gold.


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