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MrCrave

Monster Token

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As many of you know from the stream that there will be a new system called Skill Sphere to replace our current spec system. To unlock the Uber for Skill Sphere you'll need Monster Tokens from completing Adventure quest.

Here the problem.. Trendyent just confirmed on one of the caster's Stream that the only way to get Monster Tokens is to complete the Daily Adventure quest. You'll get to completing the 3 types of quests. From then on the missions become a Daily thing yielding 3? tokens per day.

There are 4 types of Uber. One for each class costing 60 tokens

Betsy Egg costs 180 tokens

Key to open lock box = 9 tokens

Lets do some math here..

60 tokens x 4 types of uber = 240 tokens

240 tokens / 3 tokens daily = 80 days

180 tokens for Betsy Egg / 3 tokens daily = 60 days

80 days + 60 days = 140 days

To unlock all the Ubers and get a Betsy egg it'd take 140 days! Wewee

If every time you kill Betsy and she drops 1 token, this would make everyone lives easier.


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@MrCrave quote:

As many of you know from the stream that there will be a new system called Skill Sphere to replace our current spec system. To unlock the Uber for Skill Sphere you'll need Monster Tokens from completing Adventure quest.

Here where the problem.. Trendyent just confirmed on one of the caster's Stream that the only way to get Monster Tokens is to complete the Daily Adventure quest. You'll get 9 total on the first time completing the 3 types of quests. From then on the missions become a Daily thing yielding 3 tokens per day.

There are 4 types of Uber. One for each class costing 60 tokens

Betsy Egg costs 180 tokens

Key to open lock box = 9 tokens

Lets do some math here..

60 tokens x 4 types of uber = 240 tokens

240 tokens / 3 tokens daily = 80 days

180 tokens for Betsy Egg / 3 tokens daily = 60 days

80 days + 60 days = 140 days

To unlock all the Ubers and get a Betsy egg it'd take 140 days! Wewee

If every time you kill Betsy and she drops 1 token, this would make everyone lives easier.


This is currently the only way to get tokens, but well, who said this would be he only way? Still pre-alpha, so no worries, for now :)

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gnollmar Here the thing.. They mentioned they want us to try out the new the new Skill Sphere before they can release onslaught. Uber is a huge part of that. If it takes 2 months just to unlock them.. How are we suppose to try them out?

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They already told in the caster guild stream that you can do more than 1 quest a day accually you can do quest after quest and some quest even get 5 or maybe more points as reward ;)

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@MrCrave quote:

@fl4sHb4nGeR?! Oh? Did they just change their answer? They just said it was once daily right before my post.

when you would watching the casters stream at the moment you would have seen that Lovindataco done one quest and got the next quest right after it ;)


Here the running twitch-Tv stream of Taco http://www.twitch.tv/lovindatacos


P.s. the caster guild started this moring and many of them have already multiple rewardpoints earned... so nothing to fear but i thought it aswell before i saw it on stream... that it would be a horrible grind

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There are 3 types of quests I believe and once you finish all 3 for the first time they become a 1 quest daily thing.

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The first caster guild streamer said that he could do multiple a day but we wil have to see hope u can power farm em tho.

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We're going to pay close attention to the feedback we receive about this. We're trying to create systems that get people to play hourly (like unique weapon drops, XP, pet feeding/attachment and general loot farming) and systems that get people to play daily (like pet hatching and token collection). Ultimately, we'd love to build our daily systems to reward you for playing more each day while still making the daily reward strong enough to encourage you to come back daily just for it. This is just the first phase of the system (in fact, this patch includes the first phase of many new systems!), and we'll be looking to community feedback on ways to improve our systems.

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@MrCrave quote:

iamisom But its a confirm yes that Adventure quests for token is once daily? for now?

Yes, as of right now, the Adventure quests turn into dailies after you complete the questline. :)

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@iamisom quote:


@MrCrave quote:

iamisom But its a confirm yes that Adventure quests for token is once daily? for now?

Yes, as of right now, the Adventure quests turn into dailies after you complete the questline. :)

Hm, that is a really frustrating answer as the math of the threadopener written above... i mean okay it would be somekind of weird if we could unlock everything in the first week of the patch, but really for one unlock more than a week is really horrible if this would stay as status quo for the update... maybe something to consider internally and discuss in the devteam.

Longtime motivations is cool, but is has to be balanced with the rewards and unlocks for the motivational factor otherwise it may only be frustrating. Maybe a "chance" of that the chest in incursion betsy maps might drop few rewardpoints would be a solution? I mean for regular player there is an options with the quest to get rewardpoint without gamble and more motivated players atleast would have a small chance of getting rewardpoints with the incursions.

Or another idea would be to do random questlinie where for example 3 random map have to be played and when you beat all of them for some few rewardpoints, maybe or something like bosses have the chance to drop some points and addition to that make the keys more expensive since the accessories shouldn't be unlocked in a few days ;)


just my toughts, greetz fl4sHb4nGeR?!

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I agree with Crave's idea of adding a token each time you clear Betsy, because as it stands the things Trendy wants to test won't even be seen for a month or more.

Also note that currency gating is done heavily to push people toward paying with real money which isn't in the equation,  the gating in DD2 just seems randomly thrown in.

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[[4370,users]] Im feeling like @fl4sHb4nGeR?! ill prob not login just to get not even 1% closer to unlocking all stuff. You should prob about double the unlock speed i would say 10 days to unlock a UBER sounds waaaay better. And it still alot 70days to unlock everything (70 days just for the first few UBERs)

I understand your resons trendy but the reward is way to small to make it worth it.


Seraphin

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I agree.   I haven't played much before this patch do I am slightly over halfway to 25.  Hearing that it will take weeks to get one of the top tier skill spheres is disappointing. 

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@gotrunks712 quote:

I agree.   I haven't played much before this patch do I am slightly over halfway to 25.  Hearing that it will take weeks to get one of the top tier skill spheres is disappointing. 

Especially after all the hype about them.

YAY flamethrower NAY cant use him in the next 20 days ....

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Hey all, Was going to make a similar post but [[75540,users]] beat me to it.

Now please understand this is all just how I interpret the situation and I could be COMPLETELY wrong.

I like that @iamison has given us some information about daily rewards and potential hourly rewards but as has been pointed out we need more ways to earn these Wyvern tokens especially if you expect us to test the features they unlock.

Now while this is pre alpha and there will most definitely be more ways to earn Wyvern tokens I can see two issues that are turning into one large problem. 

  1. Premium currency items are cheaper than the power ups.
  2. These tokens are rewarding us a choice of either premium currency items (Keys) or power up items. 

How does the above cause a problem?

Trendy is a business which means they want to make money and one way they are aiming to do this is through costumes and cosmetics. This is all good except they have given us the ability to earn some of the costumes in game via these Wyvern tokens. This takes away from any potential profits because instead of paying for and using premium currency we can just farm these tokens and be on our way. So to stop this they have put a cap on the amount of tokens we can earn and have effectively gives us a choice of either waiting X number of days to earn more tokens or pay for costumes using premium currency.

Unfortunatly this has also created a gating problem. We cannot make our characters stronger using the new skill sphere system because the ubers are also locked behind the same gate!

How can this be fixed? (Note these are just my ideas)

  1. Remove the keys from the token rewards and allow us to earn the 3 tokens per adventure and let us run the adventure as many times as we want. 
  2. Keep cosmetics and power ups seperate by having a different currency pool for both types of rewards. Wyvern tokens for cosmetics and a new currency for the power ups/pets. Then add a gate to each currency if required aka gate the Wyvern tokens but lets us earn significantly more of the new currency.
  3. Remove the keys from the token rewards and instead add a quest that rewards a key after three adventures have been completed with a cooldown on how repeatable it is. (Daily, every three days, weekly)
  4. Readjust the cost of the keys and other items so that the keys cost more than the ubers but less than the egg so that people can decide if they want to unlock the ubers or go for the cosmetics.

But you've over thought all this! (TL:DR)

I've probably thought about this way too hard and gotten myself into this wonderful brainstorm. Afterall this is only the 1st step of Trendy's master plan that is DD2 but I'm thinking the current iteration of Wyvern tokens is walking a fine line of player retention vs too much grind. Also it's dangerous to mix rewards that can be bought with premium rewards with rewards that power up your characters especially if your gating how many tokens can be earned. (I'm sure I've said that above :D) 

Thanks all for reading this wall of text!

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[[57784,users]]  I agree with your general idea, however I don't think increasing the price of keys is the way to go either.  Inventory space is already going to fill with lockboxes.  I do think they need to look at how often we can obtain tokens, especially if they want people to test out all of the ubers before the next patch hits.  Even Betsy's Egg likely wont be obtainable before the next patch at the current rate.

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[[57784,users]] I agree w/ you, especially regarding your third idea (which was what I had in mind as a solution as well)


The cosmetic items that are largely what Trendy will rely upon for profit should be gated so that they have a a revenue stream.  Game impacting items (pets, spheres, etc...) should be hard to obtain, but not harshly controlled by artificial time restrictions.

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Argick Hehe I wrote/post it 10min after TrendyEnt confirmed on stream it was only daily. Its a huge problem in my mind and it must be address asap.

Argick Quote

Remove the keys from the token rewards and allow us to earn the 3 tokens per adventure and let us run the adventure as many times as we want.

Two problems with this

1. I'm sure they work hard on getting the lockbox content out and scrapping it wouldn't be favorable

2. Key will add to the game re-playability. People will want to come back and farm tokens to get keys for costumes. If key option is remove, after people their Uber and Betsy egg, they'd just stop playing.

A simple way to solve this is to have Betsy drop a monster token each time it die.

1 run = guessing 20minutes to complete

1 Key = 9 monster token

I'd take roughly 3hrs to farm enough monster token for 1 key. But hey they can always raise the key exchange to 15 monster token or even 20. That way farming for 1 key would take 6-8 hrs of straight farming.

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[[75540,users]]  I agree.  I don't think they should revamp the entire system, just make tokens more available for unlocking ubers rather than waiting months on end to get them all, even if that means an increase in the price of keys.

I guess another option would be to have them as rare drops akin to legendaries, but that defeats the reward system they implemented.

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an alternate way of getting tokens would be nice. Maybe like giving achievements, titles, and codex completion a token value. This way a player that goes form 1 - 25 the long way (not power leveled) should have enough for close to enough tokens from all these one time accomplishments to unlock an uber sphere.


off topic...is it my bad luck or are some codex not able to be completed yet?

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@MrCrave quote:

Argick Hehe I wrote/post it 10min after TrendyEnt confirmed on stream it was only daily. Its a huge problem in my mind and it must be address asap.

Argick Quote

Remove the keys from the token rewards and allow us to earn the 3 tokens per adventure and let us run the adventure as many times as we want.

Two problems with this

1. I'm sure they work hard on getting the lockbox content out and scrapping it wouldn't be favorable

2. Key will add to the game re-playability. People will want to come back and farm tokens to get keys for costumes. If key option is remove, after people their Uber and Betsy egg, they'd just stop playing.

A simple way to solve this is to have Betsy drop a monster token each time it die.

1 run = guessing 20minutes to complete

1 Key = 9 monster token

I'd take roughly 3hrs to farm enough monster token for 1 key. But hey they can always raise the key exchange to 15 monster token or even 20. That way farming for 1 key would take 6-8 hrs of straight farming.

I agree that removing a system that's just been implemented isn't favorable but this is what pre alpha is for. Having the Ubers and Eggs behind a time gate that is exponentially longer than the time required to get 1 key is going in the wrong direction imo. Especially if the keys and lockboxes are meant to be part of Trendy's revenue.

I do like the idea of Betsy dropping a token.

@gotrunks712 quote:

Argick  I agree with your general idea, however I don't think increasing the price of keys is the way to go either.  Inventory space is already going to fill with lockboxes.  I do think they need to look at how often we can obtain tokens, especially if they want people to test out all of the ubers before the next patch hits.  Even Betsy's Egg likely wont be obtainable before the next patch at the current rate.

That's why we bounce ideas around here and hopefully find one Trendy can get behind :D

From what I've seen in the Caster Guild streams lockboxes are going to be very easy to obtain. Yes they will take up space in your inventory but that does not mean you are obligated to keep all of them. You could keep one of each type until you get a key and open it then replace it when you need to.

Also I'm not really focusing too much on the testing aspect of the ubers and eggs since Trendy can provide different builds to the defense council if they need us to explicitly test a system. I'm focusing more on retail release and if we had this system in the actual game. The time gate right now is just far too long and might just not be the right system trendy should go with.

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Guys, for the low cost of $29.99 you can purchase 300 tokens!

Three guaranteed tokens a day wouldn't be so bad if everything else you do in game has a random chance to give tokens as well.

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@jitterz quote:

Guys, for the low cost of $29.99 you can purchase 300 tokens!

Three guaranteed tokens a day wouldn't be so bad if everything else you do in game has a random chance to give tokens as well.

What kidn of irony ;D


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