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gnollmar

Cosmetics and Pricing

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@Woqini quote:


@Dreizehn quote:


@Woqini quote:

 A viking instead of the squire - exactly same tower stats, but different visuals, animations ... etc., how would that be an advantage ?

From my understanding that would just be a skin then.

Nope, he should off course have his viking towers. Vikings ate red amanita before battle and then went berserk. One of his towers could be just that, making enemies go berserk and attack each other - just like the enrage aura in DD1.

a different hero should have different towers. Not just in apperanace, but in effects. However, they of course should be balanced against the other defenses, such that your options are increased but your overall power doesn't drastically change just by virtue of playing it.

[[31834,users]]'s comment:

The DD2 team is composed of vastly different people than the DD1 and DDE team, so while I understand that to a certain degree, I think it's a little bit unfair to prejudge them from a project many of them had nothing to do with.

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@gigazelle quote:

If stuff was permanently locked or tied to my account in TF2, I don't think i would have spent nearly that much. I also anticipate if stuff in DD2 is permanently untradeable, I likely won't spend a whole lot of money in this game either.


Hey Gigazelle atleast in the steam description they already told about the trading, but of course not in that way that you could sell your bought skins, only the found item might be tradable in future i think ;)


Development Roadmap
In the future we’ll be adding new features, improving existing systems, iterating on balance, and creating new content. This list represents our current plans; however, none of these are guaranteed. You’ll be using our Influence System to directly guide and shape this list in the future!

Future Features:

    Pets
    Bosses
    Controller Support (Controls, HUD, & UI)
    Local Co-Op
    New Game Modes
    Toxic Player Controls (To stop those nasty AFKers + Social Score System)
    Fullscreen Tactical Map
    Social Hub
    HUD Revamp
    Summary Screen Revamp
    Events System
    Tavern Customization
    Costumes and Embellishments
    Wave Director Game Mode
    Badges & Achievements
    Trading

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I totally bought all those skin/expansion packs in DD1.  


I haven't played DD2 in a while (busy with stuff *cough*gta5*cough*) but I'd love to be able to have my best gear on and just have for each piece a Costume slot. That way I can have an awesome costume but not suffer for it stats wise.  


For me, I'd say for a costume, if it's a badass one I'd shell out 5-15 (5 if it was just a skin, 10 if it was a full new thing with it's own animations, 15 if it's got something cool attached to it, an emote or whatever for example)


But the people saying do 20-40, as much as you say that now I do wonder how many people would ACTUALLY buy them or if they would be more, "I'm waiting for that 'PERFECT' skin" which may never come therefor they may never spend that money that they said they would. 


Also, I definitely believe it should be a full set not like 5 per piece of how ever many pieces for the complete set...that's just going a bit far imho. 


One of the ways they could also keep the game going for a long time is including the "possibility" to get a costume piece just by playing (maybe specific events/challenges/achievements etc.). Of course, quite low drop chance but at least it would give something to grind on in the post game (not end game, like after you may have most of what you want and conquered it all). These ones should obv not be purchasable as it would give people "status" symbols to aim at.  

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@TooLzor quote:

Also, I definitely believe it should be a full set not like 5 per piece of how ever many pieces for the complete set...that's just going a bit far imho.

umm.. I don't know if I understood you wrong or you misunderstood what the "pieces" are.

Accessories are new parts for the default costume that is divided in pieces to create that kind of system. They will be selling a full costume and then it may have additional accessories to modify that costume and those are the pieces you may buy for a price/piece or obtain from lockboxes.

Hope I helped if you misunderstood it.


20$ isn't really that much it would prevent me from buying them all but I think they should be lower because I'm nuts and majority won't spend as much as I do. 5$ in other hand feels too cheap for a full costume unless it's like 5years old and everyone has it already and it's obtainable for free very easily. 40$ for each costume is something... overpriced.. I'd still buy what I want but would kinda feel robbed, especially if there are additional pieces for it that I didnt get already for the 40 and have to pay another 40 for all those.

(/( € 3 € )\)

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@TooLzor quote:

One of the ways they could also keep the game going for a long time is including the "possibility" to get a costume piece just by playing (maybe specific events/challenges/achievements etc.). Of course, quite low drop chance but at least it would give something to grind on in the post game (not end game, like after you may have most of what you want and conquered it all). These ones should obv not be purchasable as it would give people "status" symbols to aim at.  

This sounds really cool at first but somehow I fear this could prevent people from actually buying skins because earning a rare drop-only skin would be more of an effort and therefore more encouraging to show it to others than a purchasable skin that can 'just be bought'.

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I would go with 10$ Per costume and 15 is it had Special Emotes and animations. Such as the Ninja flip. the Tail wag while Cute isn't worth 5.. But if you make her Howl at the moon once in a while in her Idle or Run on all fours.. that's worth 15 to me.

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May as well chime in with my personal opinion.


From what I've seen I'd declare 3 "tiers" of costumes.

1) Simple mesh changes, maybe 1-2 pieces are animated or evolve. (Think if they bundled some of the accessories we've seen into a costume.)

2) New mesh, multiple animated pieces and evolutions, maybe one piece evolves multiple times. (Think Red Riding Hood Huntress.)

3) New mesh, nearly every piece is either animated or evolves multiple times. (Think Ninja Monk.)

I would use these guidelines to assign rarities and price tiers e.g. Rare/Epic/Legendary.

The most important part here is that tiers are defined and have rules, pricing should NOT be arbitrary and these tiers should be well defined and public, clarity here is very important and the content of the costume should determine its price.


Pricing, listed as rare/epic/legendary

Player favoured, but still reasonable: 4.99/7.49/9.99 using this pricing would be very attractive to players but honestly, probably does not reflect the quality of the costumes we've seen.

Developer favoured, but still affordable: 9.99/14.99/19.99 using this pricing would likely deter some players, particularly impulse buyers but is significant remuneration for the developers efforts.

I'd imagine we'll see some sort of middle ground 7.49/9.99/14.99 or maybe the high tier costumes will be significantly ramped up in price 7.49/12.49/19.99.

What you'll get for your money under these or similar price schemes:

I bought early access: 2x costumes one epic, one legendary.

I bought the collectors edition: 4x high tier costumes or 8x mid/low tier costumes and pocket change to buy pet(s) or lock boxes or some individual pieces.

I'll drop $20 to support the devs: One top tier costume or two mid tiers.

I think DD2 is worth as much as a triple A title ($60): 3-4x costumes. This price point is in my opinion a good metric, if I can make every character look different or really deck out your favourite 3 characters for the cost of a new game then you're probably in a good spot.

These prices line up rather well with the likes of DotA 2 and LoL which I would consider the benchmark for cosmetic monetisation.


Recolours/Colour Swatches/Dyes

A number of ways to approach this:

Dye packs, get a pack of dyes that lets you unlock a colour(s) on accessories of your choosing, each piece lists the colours that it supports.

Colour Swatches, buy a single item that unlocks a colour scheme, all accessories that support that colour scheme unlock it.

Recolours, buy an "evolution" for each costume piece that is really just a colour change.

Hard to say how much people will pay for this, people don't like double paying (see: League of Legends Chroma Pack debacle) dyes and recolours are something I see people spending left over currency on so like 0.99 per outfit. A colour swatch that permanently unlocks your favourite scheme for anything you buy could run up to 2.49 maybe.

Personally I'm much more in favour of having recolour be a big sink of some currency earned in game like gold or daily tokens or experience. Different colours could be a prestige thing, a sign of how long or when you were playing the game.


Lock boxes

Unclear on these, going to assume they give out individual accessories.

Really hard to put pricing on these without more information, can you get duplicates or are we going DotA 2 style (please the latter), are boxes in series, will I get whole costumes if I buy enough boxes or will I get 10 plain boots?

Depending on contents these might sit anywhere from 0.99 to 2.49 depending on piece quality and if you can guarantee something for your money. 

Whatever you do, be totally transparent about what's in the box and the rarity.


Pets

Not much to go on here yet. I'm imagining 2.99 for a unique, premium currency only recolour/minor mesh change/minor particle work(e.g. colour change) think being able to get a gold dragon with different wings and yellow fire breath. Then I'm going to assume there will be another "tier" of sorts, full unique mesh, custom particles, think if all the dragons are fire breathing wyverns then this would be a serpent that spits acid or something. Probably 4.99 for this kind of thing, hard to say without seeing stuff but you can usually push for this kind of money for pets, people love them and the way the system has been described where you can pick exactly the one you want and buy it once I can see this being the price.


Custom tower skins

Getting ahead of myself here but I can't imagine this not being a thing.

Should be themed bundles, replace all the towers on one hero. Something like 3.99 for this kind of content? Hard to price this $1 a tower, is that fair? Seems kinda low from the developers perspective but I don't see myself paying much more.


While I'm here

Other things I'd be interested in:

Cosmetic skill spheres, give players small/medium/large/uber cosmetic slots for things like animation sets (levitating apprentice, cross legged monk like Zanetta from Overwatch) , particle trails (glowy footprints), the eternally hated and yet always mass purchased particle effect wings and so much more. Lots of potential in having some system like this.

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I feel like if the devs really want to make money they need to bring back private taverns and let you buy stuff/unlock in game to make it your own.

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@Kevo149 quote:

I feel like if the devs really want to make money they need to bring back private taverns and let you buy stuff/unlock in game to make it your own.

The private tavern exists and there will be tavern customization.

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@Gutu quote:


@Kevo149 quote:

I feel like if the devs really want to make money they need to bring back private taverns and let you buy stuff/unlock in game to make it your own.

The private tavern exists and there will be tavern customization.

I remember part of the early access rewards being a tavern customization (I think it was Demon Lord related?).


On another note, I'm hoping there will be purchasable discounted packs that include multiple skins at once.  Even if it only drops the price a few dollars it would be worth it.  I'm liking the current price model they spoke of on the latest stream though.  $4 for the lower end skins up to $12 for those with custom animations.

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Well I know LoL does it like this:

Lower quality (outdated) skins are 5 bucks

"Good" skins are around 10 bucks

Legendary skins (skins that change animations) are 20 bucks

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@Piggyteehee quote:

Well I know LoL does it like this:

Lower quality (outdated) skins are 5 bucks

"Good" skins are around 10 bucks

Legendary skins (skins that change animations) are 20 bucks

the dino skin for the squire would be 50 bucks then? :D

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@Piggyteehee quote:

Well I know LoL does it like this:

Lower quality (outdated) skins are 5 bucks

"Good" skins are around 10 bucks

Legendary skins (skins that change animations) are 20 bucks

I really hope Trendy doesn't get to that point.  I'm not going to spend the price of an all right steam game on a skin for a character.

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@gotrunks712 quote:


@Piggyteehee quote:

Well I know LoL does it like this:

Lower quality (outdated) skins are 5 bucks

"Good" skins are around 10 bucks

Legendary skins (skins that change animations) are 20 bucks

I really hope Trendy doesn't get to that point.  I'm not going to spend the price of an all right steam game on a skin for a character.

Most people don't buy the skins in LoL either (or even give them one red cent for anything for that matter). The people that do, however, plenty cover Riot's costs.

(Not saying that's how I want it to be, really just saying there's a reason why it's set up that way in LoL)

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@Alhanalem quote:

Most people don't buy the skins in LoL either (or even give them one red cent for anything for that matter). The people that do, however, plenty cover Riot's costs.

(Not saying that's how I want it to be, really just saying there's a reason why it's set up that way in LoL)

I generally see more people with skins for their favorite characters than without.

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@Syclic quote:


@Alhanalem quote:

Most people don't buy the skins in LoL either (or even give them one red cent for anything for that matter). The people that do, however, plenty cover Riot's costs.

(Not saying that's how I want it to be, really just saying there's a reason why it's set up that way in LoL)

I generally see more people with skins for their favorite characters than without.

Not every skin is obtained with real money, there's promo codes and giveaways, as well as gifting. As I recall, only like 10% of LoL players ever give Riot one red cent.
I have multiple skins, but all but one of them were giveaways. Anyone can get a free skin just by following LoL's youtube channel, there's convention giveaways and other ways to get free stuff.

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@Alhanalem quote:


@Syclic quote:


@Alhanalem quote:

Most people don't buy the skins in LoL either (or even give them one red cent for anything for that matter). The people that do, however, plenty cover Riot's costs.

(Not saying that's how I want it to be, really just saying there's a reason why it's set up that way in LoL)

I generally see more people with skins for their favorite characters than without.

Not every skin is obtained with real money, there's promo codes and giveaways. As I recall, only like 10% of LoL players ever give Riot one red cent.
I have multiple skins, but all but one of them were giveaways. Anyone can get a free skin just by following LoL's youtube channel, there's convention giveaways and other ways to get free stuff.

10% is still a lot tho considering the size of their player base. 

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@Alhanalem quote:

Not every skin is obtained with real money, there's promo codes and giveaways, as well as gifting. As I recall, only like 10% of LoL players ever give Riot one red cent.
I have multiple skins, but all but one of them were giveaways. Anyone can get a free skin just by following LoL's youtube channel, there's convention giveaways and other ways to get free stuff.

Been playing league since beta, I know their skin situations and which ones are free. what I was saying is that generally playing the game, I see at least half the players in the game using a non free skin.

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honestly the 5-10$ range is perfect in terms of skins and accessories, you want a good balance nothing too high or low. 5 or so for an accessory and 10 for a skin is perfectly fine, maybe a sale or even a bundle with a 15-25% discount every now and then for bulk buying and more income. Thinking in the range of 20+ is honestly ludicrous you really have to have something special to charge that much for a cosmetic (League and dota for example have the legendary skins and such where it's basically a complete overhaul of the entire character, animations, voice etc.)

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@DunkMasterVex quote:

honestly the 5-10$ range is perfect in terms of skins and accessories, you want a good balance nothing too high or low. 5 or so for an accessory and 10 for a skin is perfectly fine, maybe a sale or even a bundle with a 15-25% discount every now and then for bulk buying and more income. Thinking in the range of 20+ is honestly ludicrous you really have to have something special to charge that much for a cosmetic (League and dota for example have the legendary skins and such where it's basically a complete overhaul of the entire character, animations, voice etc.)

$5 for an accessory is a bit steep.  I know that some do have further unlocks, but where they only partially affect a character, that seems a little crazy.  $5-10 for skins, $4 or less for accessories.

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@Syclic quote:


@Alhanalem quote:

Not every skin is obtained with real money, there's promo codes and giveaways, as well as gifting. As I recall, only like 10% of LoL players ever give Riot one red cent.
I have multiple skins, but all but one of them were giveaways. Anyone can get a free skin just by following LoL's youtube channel, there's convention giveaways and other ways to get free stuff.

Been playing league since beta, I know their skin situations and which ones are free. what I was saying is that generally playing the game, I see at least half the players in the game using a non free skin.

The more you play the game, the more likely you are to see skins, because the people that don't buy them tend to be the ones that aren't as active. Even if you see "half" of people using them, the reality is skin buyers are a small minority- but due to the nature of the beast, you are among those more often than not.

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@Kevo149 quote:


@Alhanalem quote:


@Syclic quote:


@Alhanalem quote:

Most people don't buy the skins in LoL either (or even give them one red cent for anything for that matter). The people that do, however, plenty cover Riot's costs.

(Not saying that's how I want it to be, really just saying there's a reason why it's set up that way in LoL)

I generally see more people with skins for their favorite characters than without.

Not every skin is obtained with real money, there's promo codes and giveaways. As I recall, only like 10% of LoL players ever give Riot one red cent.
I have multiple skins, but all but one of them were giveaways. Anyone can get a free skin just by following LoL's youtube channel, there's convention giveaways and other ways to get free stuff.

10% is still a lot tho considering the size of their player base. 

it;s actually closer to 2.4% ever spend a dollar

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I've no idea on pricing so I'm not going to start throwing prices around because I've no idea whats suitable.

What I do know however is that when I see something is on sale I'm far more inclined to purchase it so having little sales every 2 weeks or is something that definitely beneficial.

An example that is getting thrown around is LoL. I've only every bought skins that are for characters that I like but I've also waited until they were on sale because I knew they would be at some point. If Trendy can have this sort of system going it could be profitable.


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@Syclic quote:


@Alhanalem quote:

Not every skin is obtained with real money, there's promo codes and giveaways, as well as gifting. As I recall, only like 10% of LoL players ever give Riot one red cent.
I have multiple skins, but all but one of them were giveaways. Anyone can get a free skin just by following LoL's youtube channel, there's convention giveaways and other ways to get free stuff.

Been playing league since beta, I know their skin situations and which ones are free. what I was saying is that generally playing the game, I see at least half the players in the game using a non free skin.

The thing there is that they also introduced mystery gifting of skins. I got a few legendary skins that way gifted to me as well as I saw of few of my gifts pop out a legendary skin. I think this method makes Riot more money then the sale of Legendary skins themself.

But I would agree with a tiered system here as well:

  • Tier 1: 5$ for full set and 1.3$ a piece.
  • Tier 2: 10$ for full set and 2.6$ a piece.
  • Tier 3: 15$ for full set and 3.9$ a piece

These prices a piece is calculated that every set exist out of 4 pieces as price per piece is price full set + 5% / number of pieces. As I think buying the full set should give you a small discount then buying all pieces seperatly, but not more then 5%.

Then we got the tiers increasing in price due to complexity and work the artists have to develop it. Tier 1 being basic recoloring and Tier 3 being a complete overhaul including animations. Skins should fall in this category if you ask me. Tier 2 is in the middle, changes to the model but without any impact to animations.

Keep it simple for the consumer to understand and not to overexpensive like the legendary skins in League. Couple that with some kind of mystery gifting and gifting you will have friends buying stuff for friends and those recieving the gifts will in turn be more open to spend also money to gift their friends to repay them.

Trading them on an auctionhouse ingame could also increase the sales as people will start buying them in the store to sell them to people that would want them but don't want to spend real money for them. However for these transaction could prove to be a double edge sword as this could bring in goldsellers if the ingame money gets a real money value.

Though if kept low enough it could get those goldsellers not even bother. Though this would also mean you have to put a maximum of ingame value on the items bought in the store, diminishing the attraction of buying those items with real money.

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@Dreizehn quote:


@TooLzor quote:

One of the ways they could also keep the game going for a long time is including the "possibility" to get a costume piece just by playing (maybe specific events/challenges/achievements etc.). Of course, quite low drop chance but at least it would give something to grind on in the post game (not end game, like after you may have most of what you want and conquered it all). These ones should obv not be purchasable as it would give people "status" symbols to aim at.  

This sounds really cool at first but somehow I fear this could prevent people from actually buying skins because earning a rare drop-only skin would be more of an effort and therefore more encouraging to show it to others than a purchasable skin that can 'just be bought'.

Just from seeing in other games, buyables like skins are likely to just give some supplementary income to the devs (unless it's something that essential such as modes/maps/characters etc.)

I'm not saying have like 10 that you have to play for and 10 that you can buy though, like 1 or two that are obtainable through playing while the majority are purchasable. Personally I like the way they did it in DD1, they were cheap but they were also cool (and I was totally sold on them for that)


@Bunniecake quote:


@TooLzor quote:

Also, I definitely believe it should be a full set not like 5 per piece of how ever many pieces for the complete set...that's just going a bit far imho.

umm.. I don't know if I understood you wrong or you misunderstood what the "pieces" are.

Accessories are new parts for the default costume that is divided in pieces to create that kind of system. They will be selling a full costume and then it may have additional accessories to modify that costume and those are the pieces you may buy for a price/piece or obtain from lockboxes.

Hope I helped if you misunderstood it.


20$ isn't really that much it would prevent me from buying them all but I think they should be lower because I'm nuts and majority won't spend as much as I do. 5$ in other hand feels too cheap for a full costume unless it's like 5years old and everyone has it already and it's obtainable for free very easily. 40$ for each costume is something... overpriced.. I'd still buy what I want but would kinda feel robbed, especially if there are additional pieces for it that I didnt get already for the 40 and have to pay another 40 for all those.

(/( € 3 € )\)

Ah, yeah it could be, I was going off of another post I saw (like first few pages I think) so it's possible I misread or misinterpreted and didn't do my due diligence before posting it. 

I also just saw the "release" vid about the leveling up costumes thing which I think is badass as well.  There's just a lot of ways they could make interesting costumes while also encouraging more play in the long run too (which I think maaay be the case now)

Pretty much how they have it now I think is pretty cool, the get costume and then level up with Mythical Accessories (still not sure whether that is having to get each accessory or if it actually just levels up by playing though, haven't found out.)

So, having a premium skin (buyable) and then making it also progress by doing more playing kind of covers two bases, revenue as well as keeps people playing to get the skin maxed out I guess. 


I love the DD1 skins they had, but had they been 20 I'm not sure I would have bought them unless they were in a pack or something, I'm aware of how much work goes into the modeling, unwrapping, texturing, animating etc. but 20 is a lot for one skin Unless it's super freaking badass :P

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