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gnollmar

Cosmetics and Pricing

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So in the last devstream, they revealed how the cosmetics would work, and that the basics of the shop will be added. (You cannot buy currency yet, but you can use your earned currency from buying the game). 

To start with, you can either buy accesories, 1/4th of the hero, helm / chest / pants / legs, or skins (a set of accesories you cant get any other way).

Skins will only be buyable, while with accesories, some will be unlockable with weekly free keys and through currency.

Accesories can level with you, and as you use them, they can look cooler, cuter etc. giving you more options of customization.


Now for the main point of this thread. The devs hoped for suggestions on prices for cosmetics. So what do you think accesories should be worth, and what should skins be worth? There is no gameplay advantage, but there is a lot of work in making them, since a lot of them will have custom animations. (Moving tails, talking hats, etc.)


If you like the price idea of what anyone has suggested, please like the post, as this will make it easier for the devs to see what everyone wants, thank you for your time :)


[Example Post}

Skins: 

5$

Accesories: 

1$

Reason: 

"I keep throwing money at the screen, but the screen won't take it!" 

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I think the price should be higher with very often or like weekly or monthly sales on differents to keep the activity

Also as obvious the price should be a lil higher on better looking things.

I'd go with 10/15 per cosmetic part and accessories. with the sales going for 1/5 or something. 

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@Sarge4206th quote:

I want to see the game successful.  The more money they can make the better.  Go between 20 and 40 dollars for cosmetic parts and accessories.

Accept credit card or paypal only initially. 

After a year or so add an in game mechanic to earn some of the lower quality skins.

Expand the item shop to include customized skin coloring services.


20-40$ for cosmetic pieces?

They want to make money, not have people laugh at them, and not buy anything.

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I really hope no one is actually considering over 10 dollars for a PIECE of a cosmetic set.  I have a job, but I'm not Bill Gates.  I'm all for supporting Trendy with money, but that's a little bit ridiculous. 

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Let me start out by saying $20-$40 is too much. Especially since most players only have basic edition with $30 in-game currency. With items being price at $40, majority of the players won't even have a chance to attain the costume themselves since there is no way to put more money in when the content is release.

Pricing is important. Realistically, not everyone will be willing to spend that much on a single item. Sure pricing it super high is nice but total sale on the item will drop. Demand will depreciate as the price rises. If its too high, people won't buy! If its too low, $1 as mentioned above they won't make enough money to keep the lights on! 

Here what I think:

There are 4 pieces to a costume right now (Head, Torso, Waist, Legs.) $5 Dollars for each piece of basic costume totaling to $20. Special sets should be more pricy set at $30.

Why? Because EVERYONE is excited to see the new costume in-action with their character! Of course everyone wouldn't mind everything having all the costumes, but with price set as above people will have to choose what they really want to spend their $30 on.

But hey! If they want more, this will incentivize people to buy Collector Edition upgrade to have more in-game currency to get other costumes for their other characters! They also get 4 special Dragonfall costumes FREE!! (the monk one looks too bad ass to pass up) and more!

Some people might not want/have the money to upgrade to collector.. Well! In the stream, Trendy mentioned that there will be crates and keys you find in dungeon to get some of the costumes. Perfect for all!

Let's recap:

$5 per piece of normal costumes

$30 for special set.

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I think those accessories shouldnt be purchasable head on, the lockbox system works really well with them and 1 try with real money could be around 2dollars so 1 key for 2 or so, that has to be balanced with the chances of course. It can't be 1%.

For the unique cool looking costumes then should be only head on premium currency price. In my opinion the newest ones could always be around 20 dollars each costume and as they get older the price can be dropped down to 10-15dollar range. The old ones can be given sales that cut their price to half so about 5 dollars to boost up their sales. If they want to have sales for the just added new ones they can drop their price range to 15 dollars from the 20 and then get it up to 20 until new ones are added.

I have a lot of experience in the ingame purchases as a customer, I'm not proud of it, I regret it, but I think the prices I thought out fits for children,students and workers. They are about the same as in every other game. Not too expensive and affordable but still enough to increase spent money/player rapidly.

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I dont mind 20-40 bucks, but if people want a middle ground then 15 minimum... One important thing is having both cheap and expensive costumes so you can target a wide range of people. But with the dollar being R$ 3,00 I wont be buying it any time soon T-T(the feels).

We should look at games like dota 2 to get an idea, even though they have a much large community.

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In this first patch, without the ability to buy more currency, the pricing should reflect the amount of currency that players will have.

people who just have early access will have $30.

people who have the Collecters Eddition will have $130.

Defense Council has another amount that is added on to what they have, I don't know this amount.


So the question is, what should that $30 get you initially, and should the $130 from the CE cover everything you can get or not.



The pricing I would go with would be $2 per default character accessory, with $5-6 bundles for a set when that is implemented. Then having the separate skins be $15 dollars for one that just does meshes (Ones like the CE dragonfall stuff) and $20-25 for one that does custom animations, like most of the skins sets we saw in the devstream).

This pricing means that someone that bought the game early access base could get either 15 small pieces for different characters, or one of the skins with 2-5 small pieces for default skins. Then the CE players could get the skin for each hero and still have some left over for small default accessories.

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They can do a system like LOL, low price skins  ($5 to $10), mid price skins ($10 to $20), high price skins ($20 to $50) and everyone can access to one skins depends on how much you want to spend.

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Here's my feedback:

Charge to much, and you'll drive players away. Unless Trendy can form a cult classic like Clash of Clans, Dota 2, or LoL, pricing costumes at $20-40 will do very little to get profits. As I said above, those models hope for the .001% of players spending thousands of dollars on the game. Keep prices reasonable, maintain more players and don't ostracize players that can't pay that much. 

Edit: Context of some DD1 skins/expansions

Penny Arcade: 4 skins, unoriginal: $2 

New Heroes DLC: 4 skins, $5

Halloween costume pack: 4 skins, $1

President's Day: 2 skins + map, $2

City + Talay: 1 skin and 1 map each, $2 each

Halloween mission pack: 4 skins + map $2

Now, I expect the skins to be no where near this little. I'd be perfectly fine with $10 normally, $5 on sale because I realize this is free to play. (assuming it comes with custom animations, is completely original, and aesthetically pleasing) Accessories I would want around $1-3 depending on how noticeable they are. They should come with no stats and if you want them to come with stats, follow the event series armguards from DD1 where the starts are terrible.


If Trendy puts prices at $20-40, would we be able to get a refund on the bundle expansion? <-- serious question, I only got it for the in-game currency.

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im happy for you guys to charge for some convenience items and cosmetics.

I think the things with custom animations should cost a little more like Dota 2. I'd say about 2-3$ for a set of cosmetics is fair or 50 cents usd an item. Maybe $5 a set if custom animations? I know dota 2 can charge $20 for one set but to me thats insane.

######**let me buy a pet or courier that picks up all the mana and gold  / items for me** or buy that ability and add it to my hero.#######

Convenience items might be: larger inventory, exp boost.

In terms of content though you should never lock people out of it unless they pay ie: a map, as it splits the player base. Unless you made it so anyone can join but only the ones that bought it can host. That way people arent left out.



@iamisom quote:

Let's please focus on the topic at hand -- our current cosmetics and how much they should cost. This is a topic that we are very interested in hearing your feedback on, so let's not derail this. Thanks!


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For me it is about the game play and has never been about the look.

For me to buy, assuming these are cosmetic items ONLY

I would consider paying $1 per item, so $4 for amor set, maybe $5 for a special combined outfit.

This is not about life affordability, just life choices.




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Since the game will be F2P I'm expecting some of the more complete skins (more acessories, special animations etc) to be kinda expensive. Can't pin point a value, but kinda depends on how regularly one can unlock default skin acessories via farming keys. 

Also on the matter of the colours, the best option IMO would be something like Heroes of The Storm does, where every skin has 3 colours you can pick from, but 2 of them you must unlock by playing the game. 3 colours per acessory is more than enough.

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here's my 2 cents...


unlock hero skin $[x]

unlock color for that skin $[x]

bundle (skin with all colors unlocked) $[x]


this would allow trendy to make the skin cheaper since they could make extra money when players unlock different colors.


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Personally I don't think the $15 barrier should be broken, as alot of people have stated I think it should be a tiered system with the premium skins set at around $15 and the rest between $5 and $10 depending on the work that has gone into them and how long they have been in the marketplace.
(I'm talking about $15 for the set of 4 items)

There's two ways this can go really, overpriced, relying on that 2% of players that will fork out exorbitant amounts of money or they can put it in reach of the general playerbase, aiming for more people buying cheaper items and a generally happier public.

Just my 2cents.

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Reading through this threads just wants me to have an ignore list that also works on the forums so I can filter out offensive trash by people I am not able to take serious. (I am pretty sure there are discussion forums on the internet about personal belongings) This thread is VERY important. Everyone of us posting here loves this game and we should behave like that.

It does not matter how high our income is. There are people among us with a quite nice incomine and still won't ever buy cosmetics for >20$.

5$ for a Skin sounds ok for me. There still needs to be considered how high the costs for creating are, how many new are possible to produce and how many costs needs to be covered in relation to the amount of buyers. I guess these things are already being thought about by Trendy.

From my point of view those skins from the dev stream are totally worth 5$.

What do you think for 5$ for the base skin and if the player feels happy there is the ability of enabling the evolution of the skin for 1 additional $?

Accessoires for 1$ is nothing to hesitate. Sounds like an immediate buy to me. ^^ 1$ should be the minimum. Eventually 1.50$ and up the cooler they are and also depending on how much there are.

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Here is my $15:

Pricing will be "too high" at first, it really doesn't matter what we start it at because people will complain. If I was to put a price on something like cosmetics we need to keep a few things in mind:

A) The suitability and longevity of the game

B) The average consumers ability to purchase and continue purchasing these items. 

Let us bar the "Little kid with mommy's credit card" kind of individual for this discussion. The average person (From my experiences) will put about $15-25 a month into a game they actively enjoy and want to support, at least that is what I used to do. So let us split hairs and ask what can I get for $20 a month? 

Evolve is charging $5.00 for their skins at the moment, this basically is only weapon skins and not even costumes for particular characters. For something purely cosmetic and for a game with a box price I find this way to steep a price. For a free to play game, however, $5.00 is at least justifiable. I am not saying we should be charging $5.00 a skin, no, with the amount of characters and skin/cosmetic possibilities will be vast so we can trim that price down to something more reasonable. Granted, from a marketing standpoint it is hard to find good pricing without knowing exactly what your options will be so initial pricing will be a pretty big jumping point for Trendy. Go to high and you wont gain enough revenue to sustain the game long term and people will stop buying after the "hype". Go to low and you'll be handing a free game over with skins without making enough of a splash unless you gain a massive fan base/purchasing population.

With these things in mind here is my thoughts on what a "fair" pricing would be for something like a Skin for a character:

Character skins should be around $3 (Or more for specialty skins and even those shouldn't break $5.00)

Other cosmetics can range from $0.50-$1.50 depending on quality. 

On that same note, I think we should have some skins that are going to be purchasable with in game gold as well as real money, I say this for a good reason. In most F2P games players who don't pay up feel left out of the fun world of cosmetics or premium content, by giving the free players a taste of what they could be having with in game gold may push them to purchase a skin they really like. I am by no means saying every skin should have a gold tag attached to it, this is a free to play game not a "Non profit" game. The Free to play model/cash shop walks a fine line between Pay to win and failure, DD2 without having things to purchase which impact the game will need to ensure their customers keep purchasing which I fear is going to be a struggle in the long term because cosmetics only go so far. This is a very premature statement because we do not know what exactly will be in the game yet and I am sure they will release more content which they can attach a monetary item too. 

So for $20 a month I can get:

3-5 skins for $9-$15

10-3 misc cosmetics for $5.00-$4.50

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@Dagnome quote:


So for $20 a month I can get:

3-5 skins for $9-$15

10-3 misc cosmetics for $5.00-$4.50

My concerns about this so far: After buying a skin I am busy evolving, so I will not immediately buy another skin.

If there will be skin sales, then about 90% of the players will wait for these sales. 

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My 2p

I'll buy skins if they impart buffs, cosmetics i wont buy.

I'll buy new character classes and/or level DLC, as i did with DD1.

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Here is my opinion.

There are two important parts to selling cosmetics: is the product what the consumer wants, and is it a good value proposition.

First, there should be a variety of price points for a variety of products. Some guy might only want to spend a few dollars at a time, and there should be something for him to buy when he wants, accessories are a prime option. Some other guy might have no second thoughts about paying 20 or more dollars at a time, and he should also have compelling products to buy, skins/costumes are a good option.

About value proposition, its hard to gauge exactly how much money a skin or accessory is worth, but i think LoL does a good job of dividing their products into different price points based on its quality. For instance "Golden Alistar" is 390 RP (about 2.4$), and is essentially a simple recolor of the original skin, while "Pulsefire Ezreal" is more than 8 times as expensive (20$), but includes new skill animations, character voice, and more. In the same way, you could have regularly priced skins and accessories making up the bulk of the products you can get, but also have outliers for the people who arent really concerned about the price.

Personally i have never considered buying the top tier LoL skins, but i have encountered them ingame quite often, so i would have to suggest:

1-5$ per accessory, giving a wide range of options in quality, with perhaps a few very detailed accessories going above that.

10-15$ per skin, is quite a bit more than the average LoL skin, but a lot more work obviously go into them in DD2, so i think its fair, and i would probably get one once in a while. If i had to pay more for each skin, it doesnt matter how good it is, i would still get much fewer.

25+$ for really special skins. I probably wouldnt buy it, but i think there is a market for it.


Edit: one other thing, not sure how relevant to OP, but dont make skins cost for example 1000 "trendy points" (or whatever they will be called), but leave the nearest trendy point pack being like 980 points, and the next being like 1600 points. Most companies do this in an obvious attempt to lure the customer into their next purchase, using the surplus points from their last purchase, and its frankly annoying.

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I am probably not the target audience for this game to make money.  I just don't get into skins so I cant understand why someone would pay over $5 for something that doesn't add anything to gameplay.  For DD1, I was perfectly happy paying for the extra content and have bought multiple copies of DLC to give out to friends.

I would consider buying a costume for $5 if it looked extremely good.  Maybe $1 for an accessory.  However those would be few and far between if they dont add anything to the gameplay.  

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I think between 10-20$ is a reasonable amount for a set of skins, and no more than 5$ for accessories.

Some people will dump loads of money into the game, but that's not the majority by a long shot, so you have to take that into consideration.

I don't get into cosmetics as much as some folks, but there's a market for it, so why not; I just hope that there are cosmetics (maybe not as unique as those on the shop?) that can be obtained via in game, either by achievements, or completing certain things like DD1 did.

My two cents, anyway.

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Here's my recommendation:

$1-10 for embellishments. Embellishments are accessories that can be added upon costumes, and go with basically anything. $1 would be old cosmetics that have been in the game a while or very subtle things like small badges or bracelets. $10 would be recently introduced things or much more noticeable cosmetics like hats.

$10-$20 for costumes. These are full player mesh replacements. These take significantly more work than embellishments, and the people who work on them deserve a bit more. Brand new costumes would start out at $20 and slowly drop in price over the months until they're down to $10.

I'd also like to see wildcard boxes available for purchase for somewhere between $2-5. These could contain anything released in the same update as their associated cosmetics, and would have a rare chance of some super-awesome embellishment or costume (similar to the shenron pet concept, except for paid cosmetics). TF2 does this via particle effects on cosmetics, and personally I wouldn't mind adopting a similar system as well. 

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Just want to point out that a triple-A title like Little Big Planet charges between $2 - $5 for full costumes.

I think Trendy would want as many people buying costumes, etc. as possible, and that means setting the bar low enough so that it is an impulse buy. You will certainly have people willing to pay significantly more, but I assume those will be hard core players and not casuals. I think the casual player base in the long run will probably generate way more revenue than the much smaller population of hard core fans. Setting prices too high will have the opposite effect of actually limiting the game's revenue potential.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0

Some interesting points in the above video.  As long as players who do spend $$ to get items can trade them, you'll see a pay 2 win mentality happen with a group of people if the regular folk can't get these paid items through playing the game.  Other than maybe a few premium non-tradeable items, I think all items that can be traded can be achieved in game without spending $$ (they might just take a very long time to get).


As for pricing?  Why don't they have a semi-trial and error system where they price the higher quality items a little too expensive and lower the price if the sale #s aren't making sense and give a credit to anyone who bought at the higher price.  They can also look into short sales to see if a lower price would make more sense without having to risk selling it too low or giving a refund (unless they actually do drop the price).

Generic stuff (imo) should be under $3.  It better be a freaking awesome item if it's price over $8 and carry some kind of rarity/prestige.  If it is unlocking some aspect of the game (extra hero, new map, etc), I can tolerate up to $20 depending on just how much content is being unlocked.



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