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Kittendemon

kobolds need a serious re-looking at

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im tired of the fact that a well thought out defense is useless vs stacking 40+ of 1 tower because of kobolds they are way to fast and their damage is ridiculous they offer no chances at making mistakes perfect example 40ish cannon towers on the squire clears anything with ease but setting up 4 earthshatters with knock up % + 2 ice towers and having the monks anti air tower + huntress geyser tower i lose every single time even though im comboing the games mechanics perfectly to get every little bit of dps out but it doesnt matter as kobolds are too fast for the ice towers and earthshatters and can run right over geysers because they are being flooded with other monsters please trendy do something about kobolds their damage is far beyond what it should be and its honestly making me hate the game more and more

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This wasn't a problem before and the only reason it's a problem right now is the targeting bug = when towers switch target after killing a monster to a monster that is alrdy in range, they have a huge break in attacking which allows kobolds to freely run at your towers.


suggestions to counter this problem until they get it fixed:

Fire burst towers have aoe dmg which counters the problem a little bit.

Place fire traps and/or lightning auras to the edge of your towers range to cause more dmg aoe.

Place a blockade/barrier/dummy in front of your towers, about a 2 tower distance away from them so the explosion won't reach them.

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try adding a lightning tower ont he gysers to stun the little buggers/easily kill them, shouldnt need upgrades. btw earth shatter doesnt work with AA.

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@Bunniecake quote:

Place fire traps 

You're better off trying to kill them with a geyser trap, blaze balloon is dead broken in damage, it's so baddd


To address the true issue here, their damage is too high but it's funny so that it counters non wall builds or too gathered builds, don't want a kobold to kill everything? give it some space! :D 


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[[43252,users]] no no not blaze balloon, by "fire trap" I mean the first trap huntress has, it deals a lot of dmg with builder gear.

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@Bunniecake quote:

Gutu no no not blaze balloon, by "fire trap" I mean the first trap huntress has, it deals a lot of dmg with builder gear.

Explosive Trap :P ok !

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I love those little buggers! They how love HP and their only goal is to cause an explosion on your defenses, making you think on how you place them. I remember in DD1 when I played the Demo, the only thing that would really pass my Cades where those damn kobalds, they had the ability to break open my defenses and really turn the tide of battle in favour of the enemy.

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ive tried all these suggestions the kobolds simply run past my walls ignoring them "sometimes" not all times i use geysers/ice all the time and i combo lightning into gesyers yet they still manage to simply run through everything and *** my world over because of their massive damage 

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Kitten, I haven't had a huge issue with Kobalds... Even using conventional builds, my biggest issue was the Javilin Throwers, those guys need some rework as they stay out of range of your towers while killing them.

With DD2's current state( Range enemies are FAR to powerful), the best builds are either pure Lightning Aura spawn killing, or Lightning Aura + Geyser + Sky Guards.

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I actually think kobolds need a BUFF more than anything. Not a buff against defenses (damage against those is just right), but a buff in damage against objectives. If I let a kobold past, They blow up on the objective for a whopping 2% of its health.

Their damage against heroes and defenses are perfect right now, but I'd like to see kobolds get a massive damage bonus against objectives so we can keep an extra keen eye out for them. This applies to both walking, skating, and hang gliding kobolds.

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@Gutu quote:


@Bunniecake quote:

Place fire traps 

You're better off trying to kill them with a geyser trap, blaze balloon is dead broken in damage, it's so baddd


To address the true issue here, their damage is too high but it's funny so that it counters non wall builds or too gathered builds, don't want a kobold to kill everything? give it some space! :D 


I agree with you there, but why does the kobold with MORE mobs on his back run faster than the kobolds with a single pack? Wouldn't more bombs equal more weight? :P

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@Minishadow quote:

...my biggest issue was the Javilin Throwers...

I didn't want to complain about the ranged enemies, cause somebody could, in all fairness, say "learn 2 play" or something to that effect.

Buuuuut, I'm going to complain anyway. 

They are annoying in the worst way. Especially in Ramparts incursion, when they sit in the damn healing aura. 

(Yes, I know it's probably an intentional gimmick)


Often, on the same map, they will get crowded by other mobs in the short tunnels near the core. 

It becomes difficult to single them out and kill/re-position them. Meanwhile they take every opportunity to shoot nuclear missiles at the core.


Most frustrating aspect of the game for me, so far.


The amount of effort required to defend against ranged enemies is way out of proportion to any other challenge in the game. Except for soloing dual ogres while ranged enemies nuke the core...

EDIT: 

The situation I'm describing occurs when using a turtle-build on ramparts incursion. I guess the obvious solution is.... to set up defenses near spawn, and don't use turtle build.

Not sure why I completely neglected that fact. lol.

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@Kamikaze_hfx quote:


@Minishadow quote:

...my biggest issue was the Javilin Throwers...

I didn't want to complain about the ranged enemies, cause somebody could, in all fairness, say "learn 2 play" or something to that effect.

Buuuuut, I'm going to complain anyway. 

They are annoying in the worst way. Especially in Ramparts incursion, when they sit in the damn healing aura. 

(Yes, I know it's probably an intentional gimmick)


Often, on the same map, they will get crowded by other mobs in the short tunnels near the core. 

It becomes difficult to single them out and kill/re-position them. Meanwhile they take every opportunity to shoot nuclear missiles at the core.


Most frustrating aspect of the game for me, so far.


The amount of effort required to defend against ranged enemies is way out of proportion to any other challenge in the game. Except for soloing dual ogres while ranged enemies nuke the core...

EDIT: 

The situation I'm describing occurs when using a turtle-build on ramparts incursion. I guess the obvious solution is.... to set up defenses near spawn, and don't use turtle build.

Not sure why I completely neglected that fact. lol.

Place a wall behind the corner so they get attracted by it and move forward like other monsters to their deaths. :)

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@Bunniecake quote:


@Kamikaze_hfx quote:


*ranged enemy rant*

Place a wall behind the corner so they get attracted by it and move forward like other monsters to their deaths. :)

Genius. 

I've seen people do this, but I didn't make the connection. 

Thanks for the tip. 

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@gigazelle quote:

I actually think kobolds need a BUFF more than anything. Not a buff against defenses (damage against those is just right), but a buff in damage against objectives. If I let a kobold past, They blow up on the objective for a whopping 2% of its health.

Their damage against heroes and defenses are perfect right now, but I'd like to see kobolds get a massive damage bonus against objectives so we can keep an extra keen eye out for them. This applies to both walking, skating, and hang gliding kobolds.

I kind of agree here, Flying kobalds are completely negligible in terms of damage. 

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@Launchqad quote:

I agree with you there, but why does the kobold with MORE mobs on his back run faster than the kobolds with a single pack? Wouldn't more bombs equal more weight? :P

'Cause a kobold is a fighter, the higher the challenge, the stronger he becomes! He Trained his whole life for that one objective, to get into the map and run as fast as possible to suicide and destroy as much as he can, that's his every new year resolution, to explode, that's his only one job, that's his dream, all his hopes, he trained his whole life for that single moment, a moment where he blows himself up and brings part of your defenses with him..

Who are you to take that away from him? 
Are you really going to kill him before he can achieve what he lived his whole life for? 
Are you that cold? 

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@Gutu quote:


@Launchqad quote:

I agree with you there, but why does the kobold with MORE mobs on his back run faster than the kobolds with a single pack? Wouldn't more bombs equal more weight? :P

'Cause a kobold is a fighter, the higher the challenge, the stronger he becomes! He Trained his whole life for that one objective, to get into the map and run as fast as possible to suicide and destroy as much as he can, that's his every new year resolution, to explode, that's his only one job, that's his dream, all his hopes, he trained his whole life for that single moment, a moment where he blows himself up and brings part of your defenses with him..

Who are you to take that away from him? 
Are you really going to kill him before he can achieve what he lived his whole life for? 
Are you that cold? 

You must be working for the kobolds. For that, I can not respect you!

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@Gutu quote:


@Launchqad quote:

I agree with you there, but why does the kobold with MORE mobs on his back run faster than the kobolds with a single pack? Wouldn't more bombs equal more weight? :P

'Cause a kobold is a fighter, the higher the challenge, the stronger he becomes! He Trained his whole life for that one objective, to get into the map and run as fast as possible to suicide and destroy as much as he can, that's his every new year resolution, to explode, that's his only one job, that's his dream, all his hopes, he trained his whole life for that single moment, a moment where he blows himself up and brings part of your defenses with him..

Who are you to take that away from him? 
Are you really going to kill him before he can achieve what he lived his whole life for? 
Are you that cold? 

Nah, there's a simpler answer.  The bigger bombs are filled with hydrogen, much like old airships.

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@Bunniecake quote:

This wasn't a problem before and the only reason it's a problem right now is the targeting bug = when towers switch target after killing a monster to a monster that is alrdy in range, they have a huge break in attacking which allows kobolds to freely run at your towers.


suggestions to counter this problem until they get it fixed:

Fire burst towers have aoe dmg which counters the problem a little bit.

Place fire traps and/or lightning auras to the edge of your towers range to cause more dmg aoe.

Place a blockade/barrier/dummy in front of your towers, about a 2 tower distance away from them so the explosion won't reach them.

There is one other scenario I've encountered a problem with kobolds--sometimes the RNG decides that a specific lane is for a specific wave is just going to be "lolkoboldspam" and be nothing but mass amounts of Kobolds (that are usually stronger than the average Kobold, i.e. the higher rank ones mostly) and a handful of voodoo healers.  I lost solo hard++ throne a few weeks ago to this and it completely shocked me.  One lane was just Kobolds and they blew up all my towers, then the other lane was "normal" enemies and they just killed the cart core.  The worst part about it is that it's very sudden and there's not much you can do about it if you aren't constantly on guard for it (which you can't always afford to do, specifically when soloing).  All I saw was roughly 2 "core is under attack" messages, and assumed it was just a random spear thrower or Drakin getting a last rite shot off before it died.  Next thing I knew I saw a flurry of "X tower was destroyed!" messages, and then the cart core was swamped in enemies and I lost in very, very short order.


Now, there's a decent chance this may have been due in part to the targeting bug you mentioned earlier, but I'm sure that that alone wouldn't be the only cause if there are enough Kobolds.  You don't see the mass Kobold waves very often, and there's a non-zero chance that many of the times you encounter them you build pure aura/trap strategy which entirely ignore and annihilate Kobolds.  This is a good strategy against them, yes.  You can see the wave contents ahead of time, yes.  HOWEVER, you can't know ahead of time the wave contents in later waves you haven't reached yet (their "trends" can and do change over the course of any given battle), and it's not exactly realistic to be expected to just change your entire defense setup mid-battle between waves just because you see the dreaded mass Kobold coming, and you also can't be expected to personally prevent them all from ruining any tower based defense you have because you may have to be tanking/kiting an ogre that round or dealing with fliers perhaps (this is all presuming you're solo--with a team this whole issue is a completely different beast, so to speak).  So, what this all means is that the only real viable strategy if you wish to solo and avoid the chance of losing to mass Kobold is to use auras and traps exclusively (note that there are some maps you can probably build a Kobold spam proof tower defense, but not all maps is this possible to do on).


Note that this *is* a rather isolated issue--I've only ever seen this manifest once, but that may be because I don't solo very frequently.  However, I do think that its existence is a likely indicator of another, greater problem that's belied by this "smaller" Kobold problem.  I don't claim to be wise enough to know the true nature of it though, the least of why being that I don't have nearly enough gameplay data to draw conclusions from.  Alas, I'm beginning to digress here, so I shall stop before my "Great [Text] Wall of China" is built any longer. :P

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@Prince Mononoke quote:


HOWEVER, you can't know ahead of time the wave contents in later waves you haven't reached yet (their "trends" can and do change over the course of any given battle), and it's not exactly realistic to be expected to just change your entire defense setup mid-battle between waves just because you see the dreaded mass Kobold coming, and you also can't be expected to personally prevent them all from ruining any tower based defense you have because you may have to be tanking/kiting an ogre that round or dealing with fliers perhaps (this is all presuming you're solo--with a team this whole issue is a completely different beast, so to speak).  So, what this all means is that the only real viable strategy if you wish to solo and avoid the chance of losing to mass Kobold is to use auras and traps exclusively (note that there are some maps you can probably build a Kobold spam proof tower defense, but not all maps is this possible to do on).


There is no need to use auras and traps exclusively, or to change your defense mid game.  Whenever I do any sort of non turtle build, every lane generally has an assortment of aura and point defense towers.  The only thing I build exclusive to a lane is when it contains an ogre.  For this reason, I hope ogres and bosses become random on nightmare.  It's no fun knowing exactly where they will come from and already have a specialized defense waiting.  If you build a balanced defense, you will rarely get overrun by that 'kobold spam' (this is my favorite wave as they die instantly in 1 lightning aura.  The only thing I worry about from wave to wave is which one may get preferential treatment in upgrades that way.

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@Omamba quote:


@Prince Mononoke quote:


HOWEVER, you can't know ahead of time the wave contents in later waves you haven't reached yet (their "trends" can and do change over the course of any given battle), and it's not exactly realistic to be expected to just change your entire defense setup mid-battle between waves just because you see the dreaded mass Kobold coming, and you also can't be expected to personally prevent them all from ruining any tower based defense you have because you may have to be tanking/kiting an ogre that round or dealing with fliers perhaps (this is all presuming you're solo--with a team this whole issue is a completely different beast, so to speak).  So, what this all means is that the only real viable strategy if you wish to solo and avoid the chance of losing to mass Kobold is to use auras and traps exclusively (note that there are some maps you can probably build a Kobold spam proof tower defense, but not all maps is this possible to do on).


There is *usually no need to use auras and traps exclusively, or to change your defense mid game.  Whenever I do any sort of non turtle build, every lane generally has an assortment of aura and point defense towers.  The only thing I build exclusive to a lane is when it contains an ogre.  For this reason, I hope ogres and bosses become random on nightmare.  It's no fun knowing exactly where they will come from and already have a specialized defense waiting.  If you build a balanced defense, you will rarely get overrun by that 'kobold spam' (this is my favorite wave as they die instantly in 1 lightning aura.  The only thing I worry about from wave to wave is which one may get preferential treatment in upgrades that way.

I fixed your post by adding a word with a star before it.

What you're not seeming to understand here is that this isn't something that happens often; I'm not trying to say they're always this bad--far from it!  It needs some fairly specific conditions to manifest, but it does happen occasionally.  I was talking specifically about those occasions, the implications of their existence, and how they can cause your play pattern to change should you wish to try to mitigate and/or prevent them from occurring. :)

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