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Kraith88

The New Weapons

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This guy rocks, his streams are fun! Do watch it, besides a great player and streamer he's an awesome friend too =) Had a great farming night! Peace!

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@Jaromir quote:

have u tested the range of that squire stat? how close do u need to be?

We are not sure if it works, I don't have it, my friend does, so I can't test.  It may only buff towers built by the player.

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@Kraith88 quote:


@Jaromir quote:

have u tested the range of that squire stat? how close do u need to be?

We are not sure if it works, I don't have it, my friend does, so I can't test.  It may only buff towers built by the player.

We didn't notice it workin at all in the map from that SS, but I did verify it works on my towers in the tavern.  Seems I need to be quite close to the towers 

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We didn't notice it workin at all in the map from that SS, but I did verify it works on my towers in the tavern. Seems I need to be quite close to the towers 


Could it be, it only boosts your towers then oz?  We will perform more testing tomorrow.

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noticed something, I just received the oldlooks monk polearm with corspe explosion on it ...so apparently weapons can have the old looks aswell with new stats on em 

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@Jaromir quote:

noticed something, I just received the oldlooks monk polearm with corspe explosion on it ...so apparently weapons can have the old looks aswell with new stats on em 

That should be a bug.  Make sure to take a screenshot and report it.

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Awesome, though tbh that staff special stat could actually go and do more harm than good since i 2 appretices, one geared for building and another geared for personal dps, now if i have to get this on my builder i would actually loose control of what targets i would be marking. Beside that though i can only see the others heroes special stats doing good things

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@mokn quote:

The monk one is useless, same with mages.

Monk one is not useless.  Monk one allows you to hold a lane and dps it down relatively quickly.  


The apprentice one is indeed useless atm.  It works, though stupidly.  Should be changed to, where apprentice towers deal increased damage on marked targets.

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We tested the squire one, it gives +12.5% damage per squire, 4 squires gives over 50% more dps on towers.

That is overpowered compared to the other ones.

I've never seen a dps monk, also 1k damage to 25k hp creeps is nothing. It should work with towers and auras, it'd make for some nice combos. When a game ends it's around 270 mil damage by towers, 17 mil by players and that's when people are dpsing. So items with player dps as a special stat is pretty useless.

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would be nice to see at least the DMG dealing special stats (like the one having a chance to deal xy dmg after landing) to be based of your Hero Power so like the new monk explosion could do x*Hero Power dmg instead of a fixed value so that these dmg stats would increase with better gear...

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Huntress - sounds cool, but I didn't see it actually work. Killing Orcs (which are resistant to physical damage) didn't seem easier with new bow.

App - as I find marketing enemies questionable, this toy may make everything constantly marked, which significantly increases usefullness of marking. Get that staff with +x max marked enemies and tell what happens ;)

Squire - powerhouse, which in fact boosts turtling startegies on Rampart and Throne Room. How about inverting range of effect so that towers are boosted only if you are far away? :>

Monk - sounds great and cool, but Serenity Aura is somewhat useless thanks to life draining weapons. We will see if melee strategies become valid someday (monster fest?).

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@avaLancHe quote:

I'm a bit envious of the spawn you got on that bow! Insane base and good -resists (In 6 so far I've only had 1 over 20)

ah! that bow i actually mine :P and i got 9 by now where 3 are over 22, the most recent one is -24 and 50% extra crit, and 1 of the others is -23 and 15% life steal both are awesome :P

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@mokn quote:

We tested the squire one, it gives +12.5% damage per squire, 4 squires gives over 50% more dps on towers.

That is overpowered compared to the other ones.

I've never seen a dps monk, also 1k damage to 25k hp creeps is nothing. It should work with towers and auras, it'd make for some nice combos. When a game ends it's around 270 mil damage by towers, 17 mil by players and that's when people are dpsing. So items with player dps as a special stat is pretty useless.

Just because the other ones are bad, doesn't make the squire's op.  I admit it is awesome, but will have it's limitations when the difficulty ramp up and you are no longer able to build towers all in one nice, compact spot.


As for the monk, I actually did see a dps monk last night with the new weapon.  He was able to nearly hold the large hallway in the ramparts incursion (2 lanes) by himself.  He essentially only let the burrowing rock guys by.

Also, 1k damage isn't a lot, but it stacks up.  With all the enemies coming out now, there are large groups clustered up.  Just finish off a few small enemies and watch the chain reaction finish off most enemies except for the really big guys.


Side note, the party stats is probably still bugged.  There is no way your towers do 270mil damage unless you are holding the mobs in a position that they can keep themselves healed through your damage.  The player stats is likely a more accurate account of party totals.  If you compare the 2 screens, party stats always seems to be exactly X times more than the individual stats, where X is the number of players.  So total tower damage was probably more like 60 - 70 million damage total and player damage more like 4-5 million

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@mokn quote:

The monk one is useless, same with mages.

Good one. I tried it on my monk, all Boost/Tower gear  + the new weapon. I could easily stand invincible and attack in my Serenity aura, holding half the map (Ramparts incursion). Ended up with ~13M hero dmg + ~23M defense dmg (I only built Serenity aura)... Totally useless.

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This is so massively unbalanced by favoring the squire.  "Increase defense power by X for all defenses against anyone hit by the squire" would be a bit more reasonable.  Right now all the squire needs to do is to build and sit at the tower nest.  the other 3 classes need to actually attack, go spam abilities or go kill someone to take advantage of the unique mod.

Also for monk that extra ~1000 damage is barely 1 extra hit.  you might need to boost it to 20-50% max health for it to be fun/useful.  Imagine dropping the big guys brings everyone around down with him.  I imagine if Sanctum 2 can get away with 50% max health explosions and guns, so can you.

For huntress, Didn't we have gone over how much 1 resist is?  100 ish resist out of half damage (orc's physical or magical for trex) is not a lot.  at least compared to the 100 defense power the squire will have without doing anything.

For apprentice... If you are the one building stuff where does the ability powers come from to make your abilities useful?  And it's not like they all of a sudden have unlimited number of marks being able to cast at the enemies by your defenses.  Unless some other apprentice can use your marks I don't see that to be useful.

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@K61824 quote:

This is so massively unbalanced by favoring the squire.  "Increase defense power by X for all defenses against anyone hit by the squire" would be a bit more reasonable.  Right now all the squire needs to do is to build and sit at the tower nest.  the other 3 classes need to actually attack, go spam abilities or go kill someone to take advantage of the unique mod.

Also for monk that extra ~1000 damage is barely 1 extra hit.  you might need to boost it to 20-50% max health for it to be fun/useful.  Imagine dropping the big guys brings everyone around down with him.  I imagine if Sanctum 2 can get away with 50% max health explosions and guns, so can you.

For huntress, Didn't we have gone over how much 1 resist is?  100 ish resist out of half damage (orc's physical or magical for trex) is not a lot.  at least compared to the 100 defense power the squire will have without doing anything.

For apprentice... If you are the one building stuff where does the ability powers come from to make your abilities useful?  And it's not like they all of a sudden have unlimited number of marks being able to cast at the enemies by your defenses.  Unless some other apprentice can use your marks I don't see that to be useful.

I have to agree that the quality of the stats is heavily varied between the classes but i don't know that they're as broken as you're thinking (except with the apprentice which is useless in it's design).

The squire's special stat seems OP because it's perfectly designed. It gives the squire choices. The class in it's own is a tank, it has low base damage scaling, a taunt, and the highest potential resistances of all the classes through his shield. So now your tank can be useful for more than just keeping the attention of the big baddies, he can buff a patch of defenses, or tank, or if he's really careful about positioning, do both. I don't want this changed except for the stacking. One squire sword's buff is fine, it adds between 5 and 10% stats to a really well geared builder's towers. The fact that four people can stack their DP auras on any defense is broken. The aura needs to be non-stacking. Adding 150 power to a 2k stat (2k between power and speed) builder's towers is strong but not broken, adding 600 from four squires is too strong.

The huntresses special stat is stronger than you think. I haven't crunched the numbers exactly but heavy armored orks have between 1000 and 1500 armor, it's either 66% or 75% reduction. After the reductions, the bonus damage is close to the squire's and combined with the hunt's already high single target damage it synergizes well to speed up the dispatch of troublesome tough baddies. The benefit of this is inflated as it interacts multiplicatively with the squire's bonus whereas the squire's bonus interacts additively with itself.

The monk and app stats are where my issues lie. Cool concepts that weren't thought through in relation to actual game play. The monk's  weapon would allow a monk to use trash against tough baddies in chain reactions that would chunk them heavily, the problem with this is trash is and always will be able to be dispatched by our defenses very quickly which lends this whole strategy a degree of planning and difficulty that makes it more effort to use it to effect than not to, then on top of that, the restriction is added that this has to take place inside a serenity aura. It's a cool concept, but the in game implementation is terrible, even if it weren't, it'd be extremely hard to balance if it wasn't such a labyrinth to use. While the idea was fun, it needs to be unrestricted and then somehow balanced to not invalidate the difficulty of levels through exclusive use of it as the strategy to fix it.

The app special stat *sounds* cool but has no way to ever be useful in this game as it was implemented. Problem one is, if you're casting for dps then you're an AP built app, if you're an AP built app then you're not building towers. If you are and it's not a problem it's because we're geared past the difficulty of the map. If we're at a difficulty that challenges our gear, why are you wasting green and DU on a tower that's not adding to our success? If you're tower built, you should be building... but your abilities won't be adding much to our success, so beyond a little bit of fun, you're not having a real effect on our success. How can this be fixed? Enemies near the apprentice (similar to squire's dp boost) that take defense damage (from any source) are marked. with that change an ap build apprentice could use positioning to assist in the damage from spam casting his abilities and bring more damage to bear on his lane.

edit: i am can spel gud

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nah apprentices stat should be changed to increased dmg to marked targets ...that way it benefits both tower and dps builds

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@Jaromir quote:

nah apprentices stat should be changed to increased dmg to marked targets ...that way it benefits both tower and dps builds

I think the idea of marks at the beginning is to encourage the apprentice to consume them through abilities.  Increasing the damage dealt to marked targets will be against this concept.  If the damage increase do not consume marks it will just coerce the apprentice to mark as many people as possible and not to consume the marks.   I guess if the apprentice towers will consume marks for increased damage it can be get to work for builders, but for a dps apprentice it will have something missed out because marked enemies already receive higher damage when abilities are used on them.

@laronel_thone quote:


@K61824 quote:

This is so massively unbalanced by favoring the squire.  "Increase defense power by X for all defenses against anyone hit by the squire" would be a bit more reasonable.  Right now all the squire needs to do is to build and sit at the tower nest.  the other 3 classes need to actually attack, go spam abilities or go kill someone to take advantage of the unique mod.

Also for monk that extra ~1000 damage is barely 1 extra hit.  you might need to boost it to 20-50% max health for it to be fun/useful.  Imagine dropping the big guys brings everyone around down with him.  I imagine if Sanctum 2 can get away with 50% max health explosions and guns, so can you.

For huntress, Didn't we have gone over how much 1 resist is?  100 ish resist out of half damage (orc's physical or magical for trex) is not a lot.  at least compared to the 100 defense power the squire will have without doing anything.

For apprentice... If you are the one building stuff where does the ability powers come from to make your abilities useful?  And it's not like they all of a sudden have unlimited number of marks being able to cast at the enemies by your defenses.  Unless some other apprentice can use your marks I don't see that to be useful.

I have to agree that the quality of the stats is heavily varied between the classes but i don't know that they're as broken as you're thinking (except with the apprentice which is useless in it's design).

The squire's special stat seems OP because it's perfectly designed. It gives the squire choices. The class in it's own is a tank, it has low base damage scaling, a taunt, and the highest potential resistances of all the classes through his shield. So now your tank can be useful for more than just keeping the attention of the big baddies, he can buff a patch of defenses, or tank, or if he's really careful about positioning, do both. I don't want this changed except for the stacking. One squire sword's buff is fine, it adds between 5 and 10% stats to a really well geared builder's towers. The fact that four people can stack their DP auras on any defense is broken. The aura needs to be non-stacking. Adding 150 power to a 2k stat (2k between power and speed) builder's towers is strong but not broken, adding 600 from four squires is too strong.

The huntresses special stat is stronger than you think. I haven't crunched the numbers exactly but heavy armored orks have between 1000 and 1500 armor, it's either 66% or 75% reduction. After the reductions, the bonus damage is close to the squire's and combined with the hunt's already high single target damage it synergizes well to speed up the dispatch of troublesome tough baddies. The benefit of this is inflated as it interacts multiplicatively with the squire's bonus whereas the squire's bonus interacts additively with itself.

The monk and app stats are where my issues lie. Cool concepts that weren't thought through in relation to actual game play. The monk's  weapon would allow a monk to use trash against tough baddies in chain reactions that would chunk them heavily, the problem with this is trash is and always will be able to be dispatched by our defenses very quickly which lends this whole strategy a degree of planning and difficulty that makes it more effort to use it to effect than not to, then on top of that, the restriction is added that this has to take place inside a serenity aura. It's a cool concept, but the in game implementation is terrible, even if it weren't, it'd be extremely hard to balance if it wasn't such a labyrinth to use. While the idea was fun, it needs to be unrestricted and then somehow balanced to not invalidate the difficulty of levels through exclusive use of it as the strategy to fix it.

The app special stat *sounds* cool but has no way to ever be useful in this game as it was implemented. Problem one is, if you're casting for dps then you're an AP built app, if you're an AP built app then you're not building towers. If you are and it's not a problem it's because we're geared past the difficulty of the map. If we're at a difficulty that challenges our gear, why are you wasting green and DU on a tower that's not adding to our success? If you're tower built, you should be building... but your abilities won't be adding much to our success, so beyond a little bit of fun, you're not having a real effect on our success. How can this be fixed? Enemies near the apprentice (similar to squire's dp boost) that take defense damage (from any source) are marked. with that change an ap build apprentice could use positioning to assist in the damage from spam casting his abilities and bring more damage to bear on his lane.

edit: i am can spel gud

For squires bonus you have to think in terms of gear over all quality ranges.  Not everyone got 2k stats for the boost and if they have less the ratio will be seen much higher.  Right now my squire barely has 1500 (800/700) and I can already do incursions without problems.  Adding 100 without the need to work for it by going out there is a LOT, compared to the effects of the others who has to work for the bonus.

You sound as if the orcs and trex has ~100 to 150 resists/armors (as opposed to 1000-1500) that 5 hits of 20 will be enough to bring everything down.

As I said, for monks a more reasonable number would be in the range of 20-50% of max health.  The serenity aura requirement is fine, as it can be upgraded to a huge area for you to just defend a lane or two all by yourself.  I guess this is the place where traps and auras shine (trap cooldown or lower damage to a big group of enemies for auras as opposed to high damage against a smaller group of enemies for towers) but becausse towers outranges everything it is not really useful at this point.  We can revisit this topic when traps and auras once again become an essential part of the mix.  The other problem I have is that this does not synergize well with the rest of the team, like the one with the apprentice.  If all 4 players can trigger by hero dps inside the aura that would be a bit of an improvement as well.

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@K61824 quote:

You sound as if the orcs and trex has ~100 to 150 resists/armors (as opposed to 1000-1500) that 5 hits of 20 will be enough to bring everything down.

The formula for damage reduction from resists is X/(X+500) at 500 you get 50%, 1000 gives 66% reduction and 1500 gives 75% reduction.

1000/1500 = 66.666...%

900/1400 = 64.2%

a 2.4% reduction in reduction. to put that in perspective you're dealing 33.333% damage before the huntresses shred and 35.8% after. 35.8/33.3333... = 1.074, or a 7.4% increase in damage

1500/2000 = 75%

1400/1900 = 73.68%

a 1.3% reduction in reduction. so 25% before and 26.7 after. 26.7/25 = 1.052 or a 5.2% increase in damage.

and these numbers are only against the heaviest armored enemies, the increase is greater the lower the enemy's resistances. Net result is that the huntress special stat gives more overall gain against tough baddies than squire.

@K61824 quote:

As I said, for monks a more reasonable number would be in the range of 20-50% of max health.  The serenity aura requirement is fine, as it can be upgraded to a huge area for you to just defend a lane or two all by yourself.  I guess this is the place where traps and auras shine (trap cooldown or lower damage to a big group of enemies for auras as opposed to high damage against a smaller group of enemies for towers) but becausse towers outranges everything it is not really useful at this point.  We can revisit this topic when traps and auras once again become an essential part of the mix.  The other problem I have is that this does not synergize well with the rest of the team, like the one with the apprentice.  If all 4 players can trigger by hero dps inside the aura that would be a bit of an improvement as well.

I get what you're saying here but the problem I see with the serenity restrictions is it mandates building of a serenity aura, and it limits the usefulness of the special. Where the huntress and squire ones are universally applicable and enhance builds. this one restricts the form of builds and is not universally applicable. Even if the nature of the damage was changed that problem wouldn't go away.

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