Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
iamisom

Huntress Balance Changes (Foundation 1)

Recommended Posts

What?? I've only seen enemies be ignited after being oiled. i thought it was under the same combo status of when an enemy gets drenched they can be shocked. (maybe also Frozen but i don't know i've seen enemies be frozen without a Geyser)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@XRDX quote:

What?? I've only seen enemies be ignited after being oiled. i thought it was under the same combo status of when an enemy gets drenched they can be shocked. (maybe also Frozen but i don't know i've seen enemies be frozen without a Geyser)

Damage Types:

Fire (magic)
Earth (magic)
Lightning (magic)
Physical (not-magic)

Debuffs:

Drenched (caused by geyser and some water weapons)
Knocked Up / Airborn (native to fliers, caused by geyser and monk ability)
Oiled (caused by huntress ability)
Taunted (caused by squire ability)
Frozen (caused by environmental trap, frost beam tower)
Marked (caused by apprentice ability)
Stunned (caused by squire ability, monk spec node, cannons + gear, and some earth weapons)
Poisoned (caused by poison dart tower)
On Fire (caused by fire damage + oiled debuff, and some fire weapons)

The thing is: I can't verify that those weapons are spawning, because I don't have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Draco18s quote:
@XRDX quote:

What?? I've only seen enemies be ignited after being oiled. i thought it was under the same combo status of when an enemy gets drenched they can be shocked. (maybe also Frozen but i don't know i've seen enemies be frozen without a Geyser)

Damage Types:

Fire (magic)
Earth (magic)
Lightning (magic)
Physical (not-magic)

Debuffs:

Drenched (caused by geyser and some water weapons)
Knocked Up / Airborn (native to fliers, caused by geyser and monk ability)
Oiled (caused by huntress ability)
Taunted (caused by squire ability)
Frozen (caused by environmental trap, frost beam tower)
Marked (caused by apprentice ability)
Stunned (caused by squire ability, monk spec node, cannons + gear, and some earth weapons)
Poisoned (caused by poison dart tower)
On Fire (caused by fire damage + oiled debuff, and some fire weapons)

The thing is: I can't verify that those weapons are spawning, because I don't have one.

Yeah. that's exactly what i just said. you missed the lightning attribute after enemies are drenched Btw. Which is what  was talking about. If they are on the fire weapons, i wouldn't know because i have yet to pick one up that has such a feat. Causing an assumption that they weren't implemented yet.

There need to be ice weapons. that would be so epic. Which would mean enemies being slowed by frostbite towers or who are drenched will have a higher chance to freeze or will do more damage. So awesome. (sorry i know not the place. I'll get it there... Eventually)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@XRDX quote:
On Fire (caused by fire damage + oiled debuff, and some fire weapons)

Yeah. that's exactly what i just said. you missed the lightning attribute after enemies are drenched Btw. Which is what  was talking about. If they are on the fire weapons, i wouldn't know because i have yet to pick one up that has such a feat. Causing an assumption that they weren't implemented yet.

Yes, I missed electrocuted.  But I wasn't trying to list every last one.

And its not what you just said.  My point was that "fire + oil" is one thing, but "30% chance to ignite on hit" is separate.  Same effect, different trigger.  They should exist, but I haven't seen one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Draco18s quote:


@XRDX quote:
On Fire (caused by fire damage + oiled debuff, and some fire weapons)

Yeah. that's exactly what i just said. you missed the lightning attribute after enemies are drenched Btw. Which is what  was talking about. If they are on the fire weapons, i wouldn't know because i have yet to pick one up that has such a feat. Causing an assumption that they weren't implemented yet.

Yes, I missed electrocuted.  But I wasn't trying to list every last one.

And its not what you just said.  My point was that "fire + oil" is one thing, but "30% chance to ignite on hit" is separate.  Same effect, different trigger.  They should exist, but I haven't seen one.

There also isn't lightning weapon with chance to electrocute, so that makes it fair?

Like we have a condition element, and a trigger element; fire (burning) and lightning (electrocute) is currently only a trigger element, but earth can both be trigger (shatter, after target is frozen) and applies a condition (stun, from weapon).

Water can currently only apply condition (drench and frozen)

I guess the thing is that the game is so incomplete, not all the effects are there for each element>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, things are definitely incomplete.  I haven't seen an effect applied by electrical weapons yet.  This is likely due to not knowing what effect it should apply (Earth already has stun and electricuted is a fancy stun when you get right down to it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If someone attacks with water, and someone attacks with electric weapon it will electrocute or maybe it was Drench + electric weapon.


I always got confused between a water based weapon and a Drench weapon. ie: Whether both could electrocute 

@Draco18s quote:

Oh, things are definitely incomplete.  I haven't seen an effect applied by electrical weapons yet.  This is likely due to not knowing what effect it should apply (Earth already has stun and electricuted is a fancy stun when you get right down to it).


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@AussieMark quote:

If someone attacks with water, and someone attacks with electric weapon it will electrocute or maybe it was Drench + electric weapon.


I always got confused between a water based weapon and a Drench weapon. ie: Whether both could electrocute

Nope, it requires Drench.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@SorakaPlz quote:


@Draco18s quote:


@XRDX quote:
On Fire (caused by fire damage + oiled debuff, and some fire weapons)

Yeah. that's exactly what i just said. you missed the lightning attribute after enemies are drenched Btw. Which is what  was talking about. If they are on the fire weapons, i wouldn't know because i have yet to pick one up that has such a feat. Causing an assumption that they weren't implemented yet.

Yes, I missed electrocuted.  But I wasn't trying to list every last one.

And its not what you just said.  My point was that "fire + oil" is one thing, but "30% chance to ignite on hit" is separate.  Same effect, different trigger.  They should exist, but I haven't seen one.

There also isn't lightning weapon with chance to electrocute, so that makes it fair?

Like we have a condition element, and a trigger element; fire (burning) and lightning (electrocute) is currently only a trigger element, but earth can both be trigger (shatter, after target is frozen) and applies a condition (stun, from weapon).

Water can currently only apply condition (drench and frozen)

I guess the thing is that the game is so incomplete, not all the effects are there for each element>

Water weapons only drench??

You have water geysers and water weapons to apply drench for the electrocute combo. Going with the assumption that nobody has found a fire weapon that has a chance to ignite, it isn't fair because then you will need a huntress to ignite. Unless they put oil based weapons then it would end up being pointless to have a fire weapon if you can choose a different weapon with the same stats but different elemental damage for actual combo ability without a huntress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I slightly take back what i said about the poison dart towers being perfect. Since i don't really build or test them i didn't notice how extremely slow the Ticks are for the Dot. Why is it so slow?? Frostbite towers can freeze within seconds. Even without comparing to other classes, it is very easy for an enemy to run to the core in about 8 seconds top from almost any lane. It took about a minute for the tick damage to wear off. 

I understand they stack but not by much, and that's where the problem comes in. In order for you to maximize your damage output to compare with any other tower, you need multiple dart towers. The poison damage doesn't need to increase or whatever, it just needs to tick a lot faster. Any other tower will fire around the same rate as the tick damage, and if it has about the same mana cost/ fire rate but with less damage output as a whole then those towers are at a deficit already. She doesn't have a reliable ability to keep enemies in the lane so the stacking potential will only come from placing 1 tower down the lane like the reconstruction cones we see Irl on the side of the road.


Not to mention it has the lowest range on a tower and is the only tower i've seen not to have a V spread of extra range. So it cannot stack upon itself with its attack rate and inability to keep enemies in front of it long enough for a reliable damage stack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who uses poison dart towers a lot I will say they are quite fine the way they are. Ignore the DoT for a moment, look at the straight damage potential instead. The tower itself fires 6 or 8 projectiles depending on upgrade. These projectiles will shotgun on large targets. I place poison dart towers directly in the path of enemies so they come straight at it and it just melts everything. Ogres that come straight on and eat all the shots with no allies are down to 1/4 health before reaching it and have a ton of DoT stacks built up. 

If poison dart tower was instead called shotgun dart but had the exact same function everybody would use it like I describe instead of expecting some super dot tower that they can shoot an enemy once with and do a ton of damage. No other tower in the game is able to function just getting one shot in. Start treating the dart tower like the rest of them and see how it works, you'll be pleasantly surprised how effective it is at taking down heavy targets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@XRDX quote: it isn't fair because then you will need a huntress to ignite.

How many times do I have to explain this?  It's "oil + fire = ignite" or "hit them with the beat stick that has a chance to ignite."

The "sets enemies on fire" special effect does not need the oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Draco18s quote:
@XRDX quote: it isn't fair because then you will need a huntress to ignite.

How many times do I have to explain this?  It's "oil + fire = ignite" or "hit them with the beat stick that has a chance to ignite."

The "sets enemies on fire" special effect does not need the oil.

Dude. Stop taking part of what i say as a whole statement... If Nobody has a fire elemental weapon that can ignite then they "Don't Exist" at the moment. If someone has one, fine, but good grief. Maybe it needs to go into the bug section or whatever. My point is to bring something to existence. If they are there Okay, if not, fix it since apparently they are supposed to be there.


I'm not trying to sound demanding or anything. Stop taking part of my statement as a whole. I'd understand if it was the same scale as a legendary loot chest, but since it is supposedly (judging by how you keep mentioning it) only as rare as water based weapons having a chance to drench; then there is something wrong why i haven't seen anyone using a fire based weapon that ignited. I've even had other players ask "does a huntress apply oil?? " i asked why he mentioned because he has a fire based weapon and that's it. Obviously it isn't igniting on its own. Despite only playing for such a small amount of time i've put a lot of hours into finding certain items, and the fact that you can't verify yourself that they are spawning means something is wrong.


If this needs to be put in the bug section of the forums then let me know and i'll go put it over there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well, like i said, some elements are only used to apply conditions, water and earth for drench and stun respectively; others like fire and lightning are triggering elements, that will trigger effect when certain conditions are met.

They are not supposed to both have condition and trigger at the same time because that would make it too complex, and player would just end up throwing all the elements together and hope it works.

Lightning require target to be drenched to trigger electrocute, and fire require target to be oiled to trigger burn.

Why does earth not apply oil instead of stun is a question I want answer to. Fear of people screaming that DD2 is copying Divinity: Original Sin?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@XRDX quote:My point is to bring something to existence. If they are there Okay, if not, fix it since apparently they are supposed to be there.

And I'm saying that they should already exist.  I just don't have one to prove it.  I've seen the "earth weapon causes stun" effect and I've seen "water weapon causes drench."  The third of "fire weapon does ignite" I do not have.  This entire conversation has ping-ponged between two points, both of which I've addressed.

Draco18s quote:

        XRDX quote: The only way to ignite is to have a huntress. Fire elemental weapons should all have a chance to ignite enemies. At least from Epic onwards. Earth elemental weapons have a chance to stun targets so fire elemental weapons should be able to ignite.

Thought I saw both of those...?

Huh, don't have many weapons in my inventory currently, but I'm pretty sure I've seen an earth weapon with stun and a fire weapon with ignite before (water definitely has drench).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Warmonger quote:

As far as I remember, fire weapons can ignite oiled enemies at hit.

Yeah, I've gone over that, thanks:

The "sets enemies on fire" special effect does not need the oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@SorakaPlz quote:

well, like i said, some elements are only used to apply conditions, water and earth for drench and stun respectively; others like fire and lightning are triggering elements, that will trigger effect when certain conditions are met.


Water Damage does not cause drenched nor does Earth Damage cause stun IIRC ... both Chance to Drench and Chance to Stun are separate distinct secondary stats.

Earth Damage may do additional damage to aerial enemies, but that is a guess. I cannot remember last using an Earth Damage bow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Qbert quote:


@SorakaPlz quote:

well, like i said, some elements are only used to apply conditions, water and earth for drench and stun respectively; others like fire and lightning are triggering elements, that will trigger effect when certain conditions are met.


Water Damage does not cause drenched nor does Earth Damage cause stun IIRC ... both Chance to Drench and Chance to Stun are separate distinct secondary stats.

Earth Damage may do additional damage to aerial enemies, but that is a guess. I cannot remember last using an Earth Damage bow.

Not saying the damage at all, I am referring to the element itself and the effect that each element has. Elemental damage do nothing as long as it is water and earth, but if they are fire and lightning, you can trigger effect if certain condition is met.

Drench and stun is obviously only available as a mod (or as you say, secondary stat) to the two elemental weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Explosive Traps: Much better then before. Before the patch they were hard to use, clunky, and had no dps. When the patch launched I was able to instantly clear a level myself solo instead of outright fail if I missed a placement. I was then able to level from, I think around, 8-20 with explosive traps ONLY soloing the maps. I was even able to do ramparts and throne room with ONLY these traps. Then I went dps and cant anymore but my point stands, they are much better now.


Geyser Traps: Great combo now, they were ok before but needed those few tweaks. I spam these on auras still.


Blaze Balloon:I never bother using them. Low dps with low speed, I didn't build a traptress so I cant comment further then they are basically useless to a dps huntress.


Poison Dart: I might still use these from time to time. I will use them on corners, on a higher up spot etc sometimes so healers dont build up behind a wave of ogres or something and would die from the poison ticks. I still don't know how long the poison lasts, I never paid attention to that. How it works now is great compared to before. A straight line before was almost useless unless done perfectly. Now you can have it in quite a few more spots.


Dps: Much better then before, I didnt get to end game before the patch. Now I have 1698 hero damage stacked on my huntress using the legendary skull bow, that drenches 30% of the time, does 47.75% more crit dmg, and heals me for 15% of dmg dealt. Combine that with 14 points into charged primary, 14 long range, and 14 drenched(to my knowledge it seems drenched spec combines with bow drench woot), I am now a huge single target power house. I can easily do 20k crits on some enemies, and can oneshot spear throwers, goblins, kobolds, flyers and healers. I do 6k min dps on target dummy at point blank, and it only goes higher as I get further back.


My only issue with the dps is that I have no aoe. Sure I have piercing shot(I call it phoenix shot) and the volley of bombs(concussive shots). The first does between 2k-4k a shot, if that hits 10 enemies, that is only 20k-40k damage spread out, with a nearly 20 second cool-down, that is not a lot of dps. Then the 2nd ability, my volley, does damage ranging from 200-450 per enemy hit. Again not much damage.  I have 515 ability power, I only use a single item, my legend ring, for ability power. Rest is from leveling.

Overall: Overall I very much like the changes. Would like to see some love on the blaze balloon, and make the traps more easily placed, I cant place a geyser trap over an electric aura but I can do the aura over a geyser.  I would love to see some more aoe potential here. Maybe a legend weapon that does piercing shots? A talent that gives a chance for arrows to pierce? Then again those should be under suggestions.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Poison Dart: I might still use these from time to time. I will use them on corners, on a higher up spot etc sometimes so healers dont build up behind a wave of ogres or something and would die from the poison ticks. I still don't know how long the poison lasts, I never paid attention to that. How it works now is great compared to before. A straight line before was almost useless unless done perfectly. Now you can have it in quite a few more spots.


The poison lasts a really really long time, which would be really nice against bosses since at max stack you can easily get your ticks above 5k each... but it is still way too weak compared to other ranged DPS defenses. You need to land way too many darts very early in the enemies' path to make the DoT and (vicarious) total damage worthwhile, which is simply too many requirements when you could just have another class place a better, more reliable tower instead.

IMO the cone size needs to be larger; i.e. a larger spread so that you can land more darts on enemies passing by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Qbert quote:

Poison Dart: I might still use these from time to time. I will use them on corners, on a higher up spot etc sometimes so healers dont build up behind a wave of ogres or something and would die from the poison ticks. I still don't know how long the poison lasts, I never paid attention to that. How it works now is great compared to before. A straight line before was almost useless unless done perfectly. Now you can have it in quite a few more spots.


The poison lasts a really really long time, which would be really nice against bosses since at max stack you can easily get your ticks above 5k each... but it is still way too weak compared to other ranged DPS defenses. You need to land way too many darts very early in the enemies' path to make the DoT and (vicarious) total damage worthwhile, which is simply too many requirements when you could just have another class place a better, more reliable tower instead.

IMO the cone size needs to be larger; i.e. a larger spread so that you can land more darts on enemies passing by.

A larger spread on the dart tower would kill it. Its best use right now is the shotgun effect on heavy targets. My fastest ogre kills have been when I had one dead on to a dart tower. What the tower really needs is just a little bit of a turning arc. Nothing large like the Cannon or Ballista but even a little bit would really help.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

General:
Increasing the trigger radius was a necessary change.  Even with this larger trigger radius traps are still the hardest defense to place optimally.  Just as before you have to study the exact path enemies take from their respective spawn to the core in order to find the best/perfect placement, but you no longer need to have perfect placement just for your traps to actually be triggered and do damage at all.  I do agree with others (SorakaPlz specifically) that this change does make trap placement a lot easier and this does reduce the amount of map knowledge and strategy required to optimally place them, but this just brings the difficulty more in line with the other towers.  It doesn't really make sense for traps to require perfect map knowledge just to use them when the other heroes can just slap down towers aimed in the general direction of a lane and still do relatively well.  So either the other towers need to be harder to place or this change needs to remain in place, so that all of the heroes need approximately the same map knowledge to do well, and this wasn't even remotely the case before.  As it is now, huntress still requires the most map knowledge to build optimally, so at least this element wasn't completely removed.  Since this element still remains, but newer, less experienced players can still make use of traps without intensive map study, I'd say the current trigger radius is just about perfect, neither too large nor too small.

Explosive:
Increasing the damage output of this trap was another necessary change.  It made no sense previously for this tower to have lower damage output than a lightning aura when the lightning aura was superior in everything else as well (ease of use and placement, cost to maintain, maintenance in general, damage radius, uptime, etc.).  It also didn't make sense for it to do less damage than a very long-ranged AoE tower like the earthshatter or even the flameburst.  It's currently one of the highest DPS towers in the game, and has the potential to have the highest total damage output of any tower given its high dps and AoE.  This is exactly where this tower should be given how much maintenance it requires, how difficult it is to use properly, and its small damage radius.  


I'm not sure if it's just a bug or if the patch notes are incorrect, but the current initial attack rate is 1.52s (at level 25) and not 2.49s.  This reduced recharge rate is honestly too fast, to the point that this change actually hurts this defense rather than helps it.  I'd much rather see the explosive trap have a lower base recharge rate (around 2.25s at 25) and a slightly higher attack damage to compensate.  This would make the tower last longer but still do about the same tooltip DPS, same total damage output, but it would also do more burst damage.  The slower recharge speed would also allow enemies to ‘leak’ past a trap and then trigger another trap behind the one in the front, which would help evenly distribute how the charges are used, which would help the trap in the front last longer.  An alternative would be to increase the base number of charges and leave the recharge rate where it is now.  Another alternative would be to have upgrades give this trap more additional charges than it does currently.  Upgrades currently only increase the charges by about 10% per upgrade (which is only 4-5 per upgrade for baseline defense health), which isn’t even close to enough to meet the demands of the later waves.  The number of enemy spawns increases by about 40% per wave, so trap charges should increase by about 20-40% per upgrade as well just to stay on par with the increased amount of enemies trigger the traps.  This would also help incentivize upgrading this defense. Altering the spec node to make the trap have a chance to deal 1.x times normal damage and not consume a charge at all would also help the trap last longer without changing the total dps.  Either of these changes, or a combination, would help this tower last longer.  I only bring this up because as it currently is, this trap’s good damage output is not worth the maintenance cost and hero time investment, so something should be done to remedy this problem otherwise I don’t see explosive traps ever being used in ‘perfect’ builds.  Just as an example, a huntress-only build has to spend 50-70 mana just repairing traps between wave 4 and 5 on the Rampart incursion and has to run around repairing traps during wave 5 in order for them to last. This is with full power gear, minimal speed (1.1s recharge) and about 130 additional defense health. 

Geyser:
This trap is only ‘powerful’ when used inside a lightning aura.  Outside of that, it has no real use.  It actually makes builds overall less strong by disrupting how certain towers work (e.g., it makes the ballista tower shoot into the air, messing up the lane pierce) and makes AoE less effective by spreading enemies out or making AoE towers (flameburst specifically) shoot at lone enemies in the air, preventing their AoE splash from hitting entire groups.


Even after the damage buff, this tower’s damage output is still incredibly low given its very low utility (outside of the drench/lightning stun combo).  It honestly might as well not even deal damage at all.  In fact, I’d prefer if it didn’t deal damage if that means the utility-side of the trap would be buffed.  Changing how the drench spec works would be a good start.  I actually wouldn’t mind seeing this drench spec being a baseline addition to this tower.  The geyser spec could then just boost the damage output of this tower (if that’s the vision for this tower, for it to be a damaging utility tower), or do something else entirely.  


The increased attack rate from upgrades isn’t worth the cost after the first upgrade, and the first upgrade is only worth it instead of repairing the trap outright.  This is actually a problem with most of the utility towers: upgrading them is almost never worth the cost.  This is true of the geyser, serenity aura, and frost tower.  For this reason I think utility towers should be cheaper to upgrade in general, OR they need to gain a lot more from each upgrade than they currently do.  


I also think this tower needs a slight increase in the base number of charges, mainly to help leveling players that have lower amounts of defense health.  Since this is a utility tower (where maximizing damage output is of no real concern), gearing for health and speed at end-game is more than enough to make this tower last through waves.


Blaze Balloon:
I’m pretty certain there were changes made to this tower that weren’t included in the patch notes.  In the previous patch this tower would ignite enemies if they ran through the burning area and they would continue to burn for the full number of ticks and full damage even after leaving the burning zone.  This is no longer the case.  Essentially this tower just drops a fire ‘aura’ on the ground that lasts for 6s and enemies only take damage from it while they’re inside it (exactly like electric aura).  This trap is basically just a reskinned lightning aura with a different trigger mechanism.  I’m not really sure why this change was made honestly.  The way this trap worked before made it unique, basically an 'aura' that was good at dealing with fast enemies and wasn't that great at killing slow enemies, and I’d like to see its old functionality restored.  


This trap also deals horrible damage now, about 10 times less tooltip DPS than last patch, and realistically, in a real-game scenario (because of the change to how the burn works) it's probably more than 10 times less.  If I take off all my gear on my monk, my monk’s auras still do more dps than this trap does.  With the same gear set on my monk and huntress, my monk’s auras do about 7 times more dps than this trap.  Last patch when I did this same test the blaze balloon did about 30% more dps than a lightning aura.  The blaze balloon has a slightly larger damage radius but also has less uptime (because of how the triggering mechanism works) so overall these two differences should cancel each other out, so there’s no reason for this trap to do less dps than an aura.  It should actually do more, much more, for the same reasons explosive traps should do more than auras: harder to place and use, and cost more to maintain both in green mana and hero time.  As it is now, this tower has absolutely no use.  It easily wins the award for worst tower in any TD game I’ve ever played. 


I won't comment on the number of charges this trap has until I see how much damage it does in a later revision.  If this becomes a burst defense (which I believe is the goal) that does upwards of 20-30k damage per drop (per target), then the base number of 16 charges might be sufficient.  If it does lower damage than this then it would need an increase in base charges and better charge scaling with upgrades. 


Dart:
The poison does not stack infinite times, it caps at 60 stacks.  This makes it a bad idea to have multiple dart towers hitting the same enemy since up to ~73% of the total damage output of this tower comes from the poison.  Once you hit max stacks, all additional dart towers will be dealing much lower total damage than they should be.  If this isn’t a bug (and it most likely is), then I personally think this is a poor design choice.  The poison should at least stack high enough that having 2-3 dart towers in a single lane isn’t a massive decrease in their total potential damage output.


Too much of the dps of this tower comes from the poison at lower tiers.  This makes the tower completely horrible at handling trash mobs, including stronger ones like orcs and lady orcs (the enemies this tower should excel at, but doesn’t), before upgrading it to at least tier 4.  At tier 1 73% of the total max dps comes from the poison, 59% at tier 2, 48% at tier 3, 36% at tier 4, and 34% at tier 5.  At tier 1 the darts do ~842 dps and the poison does ~2314 dps and at tier 5 the darts do ~8996 dps and the poison does ~4629 dps.  As you can see, going from tier 1 to tier 5 the dart dps increases 10 fold while the poison dps only increases about 2 fold. Basically, as you upgrade this tower, more and more of the total damage comes from the darts rather than the poison, transforming it into more of direct damage tower rather than a DoT style tower.  This completely changes how this tower handles trash mobs.  It goes from being 100% useless as a trash mob killer at tier 1-2, to being half-way decent at tier 3, to being one of the best single target ‘orc killing’ towers at tier 4-5.  My suggestion would be to make the ratio of poison dps to dart dps constant between all tiers.  Somewhere right around 36% of total damage coming from the poison and the rest from darts feels like a good balance to me.  This enable the tower to be much better against the strongest enemies (bosses, ogres) but not be worthless against some of the stronger trash enemies (orcs, lady orcs).


This tower is the only tower in the game where each additional upgrade is more valuable than the last. Going from tier 1 to 2 is a 48% increase in total dps, going from 2 to 3 is a 55% increase, going from 3 to 4 is a 56% increase.  For comparison, a flameburst tower gains 50% dps going from 1 to 2, 33% from 2 to 3, and 25% from 3 to 4.  Most towers in this game follow this exact same model aside from monk towers, which gain 100% on the first, then 50%, then 33% then 25%, but each upgrade is still less valuable than the last, unlike the dart tower.  This is another reason the dart tower is so horrible at tier 1 and 2: it starts off far too weak which is necessary to prevent it from being OP at tier 5 given how it scales with upgrades.  My suggestion is to make this tower start off much stronger at tier 1 and then upgrade following the same exact model every other tower follows (+50%, then +33%, then +25%, then +20%), so its tier 5 strength is basically the same as it is now. 


Part of the reason for the shift in poison to dart damage and the increasing value of each upgrade (specifically going from tier 3 to tier 4) is because the tower gains two additional darts at tier 4.  My suggestion would be to have the tower shoot the same number of darts at all tiers.  This is mainly so the speed at which the poison stacks is consistent between all tiers, and the ratio of poison damage to dart damage would be easier to maintain between tiers.  The alternative would be to have the tower gain a dart each tier (start with 4, end with 8) which would make the power increase more linear and then balance each tier individually so the ratio of dart damage to poison damage is maintained (roughly 36% poison, 64% darts).  


This tower would also greatly benefit from some type of smart-targeting system where it automatically targets enemies with the most hp.  If this change happened then a larger portion of the total dps for this tower could come for the poison damage.  Without a smart-targeting system it needs to do a large portion of direct damage to make up for low up-time on the stronger enemies.  Other towers would also benefit from a change like this, but none more so than this tower.  


This tower also has problems hitting flying units unlike other ranged towers.  For some reason it can’t aim very high up in the air.  Maybe this is by design or maybe this is a bug, either way, I thought I’d just point this out since it does limit the overall uses this tower has.  Right now it can only be used for anti-air on very specific lanes and areas of the map. 


Until this tower is made better at lower tiers it will remain mostly useless for anything more than a wave 4-5 ogre/boss killer, and even then you’d only want to place one for each ogre/boss since the poison caps at so few stacks.  Since ogres/bosses are incredibly non-threatening for now, this tower really fills no niches currently.  In its current state, until green mana is less scarce (endless mode maybe), where upgrading these to tier 4-5 is an actual option, and tough enemies are more threatening, I doubt I’ll ever use these for anything other than goofing around with.  I do like the overall idea behind this tower, but I just think it’s poorly balanced/implemented currently.


Hero DPS:
I won’t talk much about this until the ability power and spec rebalance happens.  But for now I’ll just say I like the overall design of how this hero functions.  She has a very high single-target auto-attack but MUST use abilities to push lanes because of lack of an AoE auto-attack.  This is basically the complete opposite of the other heroes which have strong AoE auto-attacks and more single-target or utility-focused abilities.  I hope going forward this design is maintained.


Overall:
I think the huntress is in a worse position now than before as a builder.  Blaze balloon last patch was vastly stronger than the currently-buffed explosive trap.  Blaze balloon went from being one of my favorite towers, which I regarded as one of the best situational towers in the game, to the worst and most useless tower in DD2.  Explosive traps do great damage now but their lifespan was drastically reduced compared to before because you can't spread the load out over multiple traps like before (overall I’d call this a nerf personally).  Dart towers still fill no niches that other towers aren’t generally better at filling and still need a lot of work just to get them working properly.  Gesyer trap is still only useful inside a lightning aura, and potentially reduces a build’s strength depending on what other towers are being used.  Compared to other utility tower (frost specifically), geyser trap feels incredibly underwhelming. 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I deleted my comment somehow and now i am back to square 1.

I agree on every point SeanPoe made.

I would argue that we can remove the knock up from geyser and instead, have slow. It would serve the same purpose as to slow the advance of enemies, and it will make it useful outside of geyser+lightning aura combo. Sure, we are going to miss the geyser+skyguard combo, but since skyguard is a grossly inefficient tower (read monk thread for detail), I don't think we will miss much.

We can't always leave out niches for new/upcoming character. We can, however, make new idea, connections for the new characters.

Trap charge is also a big weakness of the huntress class, while the other classes have no such weakness if defense is placed correctly. Blaze balloon starts out with, if I remember correctly, 16 charge for a base LV 25 huntress. Each upgrade gives 1 or 2 extra balloons, and that is hilariously bad. At T5, it does not even have twice as many charges.

The basic lifespan of a T1 blaze balloon is about 160s, with 1 balloons being used up every 10s. That is a terrible 3 minutes of glory (if it is glorious at all). With some 150 defense health, the player get about 2 extra balloon to start with, however, the upgrade is still only giving 2 balloons per level.

Huntress either need to have her base DH increased and keep the DH:trap charges ratio, so she has a higher base trap charges. Or reduce her base DH, and change the ratio to have the same amount of trap charges, resulting in a higher return on DH gearing.

Or if huntress can have its repair cost lowered, or have depleted trap disabled (only required to be repair before it is re-activated), instead of destroyed to make it even more noob-friendly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@SorakaPlz quote:

Or if huntress can have its repair cost lowered...

Having a reduced (or free) repair cost is probably the best approach.  That way players still have to run around repairing the traps between waves and maybe even during some of the later waves, forcing a more tentative, active playstyle.  Players would still be paying in time and effort, but at least it wouldn't constantly waste the shared mana-pool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...