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Multiplayer = 1 Person builds, 3 People AFK?

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[[5651,users]] quote:

What if the character swapping penalty just lowered all stats by 25% or so?

I still think everyone having their on du is really the best solution. No more ***s telling you how to play or to give them all your mana. They would be forced to work as  team and cooperate with the resources given.

What is this DU?  I see people saying it all the time.


Are you talking about Defense Mana or Defense Limit?

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The defense limit. It's a carry over from dd1 sorry. Basically every player would have their on defense limit that they could build whatever you like within the limit. That way, you wouldn't have one guy building all the defenses or trying to take control of the group. It simply couldn't be done, because they would hit their own defense limit.

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[[5651,users]] quote:

The defense limit. It's a carry over from dd1 sorry. Basically every player would have their on defense limit that they could build whatever you like within the limit. That way, you wouldn't have one guy building all the defenses or trying to take control of the group. It simply couldn't be done, because they would hit their own defense limit.

Well why on Earth did they do away with that?

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Restricting the amount of builders you can bring or the amount of towers you can build is a TERRIBLE IDEA. It will completely RUIN the game. You people have no idea what made this game so great if you think this is a good idea. People should be able to build the whole map by themselves in multiplayer, that's all. Making up builds, comparing builds with others, helping new players with your builds, or even showing off your builds on hard maps is Dungeon defenders, that's the game.

I want to be able to build everything myself in multiplayer, that's my whole purpose in this game, I am confident that most people have that as a goal too. This game is NOT a mindless third person shooter, its about thinking builds through. struggling in hard maps with your builders and get rewarded with loot and then tackle harder maps.

Giving mana to everyone was already a terrible change, it promotes thoughtless builds by a group of 4 random people that don't communicate. That's why this game has no re-playability right now, its balanced around 4 random people being able to build randomly and still win (even on hard). There is no thinking involved anymore. I want to feel like tower placement matters again, I want to fail over and over on hard maps until i find a build that barely gets me through the map then improve on it.

I really dont understand why trendy seem to be so against single builders, how is having 4 random people placing random traps everywhere an improvement to the original gameplay?

2 changes restrict single builders:

the hero deck: a GREAT change, when we will have 15 characters, we will all have our own little combos and that will be really neat as long as maps are hard and require thinking, you will see people building all kind of different ways. (i cant wait to see what this will bring later on)

the mana to everyone concept: a TERRIBLE change, you can't judge how much mana you get per wave as it is all spread out between teammates, you cant even upgrade your towers properly. You always have to drop your mana on one guy every wave otherwise you waste mana because upgrading cost so much. I honestly don't see ANY pros to this change at all. You cant build the map properly unless the randoms in your group drop mana, its such a terrible concept it really pisses me off thinking about it. You have no say in how much mana everyone gets, its really bad. Its either a waste of time to have everyone drop mana every wave OR its a constant headache fighting against trolls, afkers, and clueless people. It is just a completely counter productive change that just adds a layer of annoyance that is unneeded.

There are very simple solutions for all this, the ability to create your own lobby just like in DD1. People will be able to create their lobby if they want to fully build themselves or join other lobbies that better suits them. 

Chests that contain a SET amount of mana like in DD1 so you can judge exactly how much mana everyone gets and who gets it. Designate someone who opens all chests every wave to upgrade so no mana is wasted. It just works better in every way.

 This game should have a proper hard mode where builds matter. I get that some people just want to join randoms and build randomly, that's what normal mode is for. Hard mode should require thinking or people won't stick to the game. People will get burnt out (like I am right now).

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[[69285,users]] quote:

Restricting the amount of builders you can bring or the amount of towers you can build is a TERRIBLE IDEA. It will completely RUIN the game. You people have no idea what made this game so great if you think this is a good idea. People should be able to build the whole map by themselves in multiplayer, that's all. Making up builds, comparing builds with others, helping new players with your builds, or even showing off your builds on hard maps is Dungeon defenders, that's the game.

the hero deck: a GREAT change, when we will have 15 characters, we will all have our own little combos and that will be really neat as long as maps are hard and require thinking, you will see people building all kind of different ways. (i cant wait to see what this will bring later on)

the mana to everyone concept: a TERRIBLE change, you can't judge how much mana you get per wave as it is all spread out between teammates, you cant even upgrade your towers properly. You always have to drop your mana on one guy every wave otherwise you waste mana because upgrading cost so much. I honestly don't see ANY pros to this change at all. You cant build the map properly unless the randoms in your group drop mana, its such a terrible concept it really pisses me off thinking about it. You have no say in how much mana everyone gets, its really bad. Its either a waste of time to have everyone drop mana every wave OR its a constant headache fighting against trolls, afkers, and clueless people. It is just a completely counter productive change that just adds a layer of annoyance that is unneeded.

As much as I agree with you first sentence, I don't agree so much with a hero deck for single player it limits you on how you can build you DEF and I thought thats what DU and low mana is for. I honestly think the hero deck needs twerking.

the mana to everyone concept thing was the same in dd1 except everyone would usually run around collecting mana for the builder or go afk. (early on people were taking mana and not sharing it or even giving it to builder). im glad they atleast made it so we didn't have to run chest to chest that was so annoying and aslong as random players are giving you mana or using it on upgrades atleast you know they arn't fully mooching. I don't mind having to use a hero in good situations, I hope they make insane difficulty having to use a combination of both.

Pre-Alphas are gonna burn you out if you are playing a content less game in hardcore mode. 

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[[68753,users]] quote:


Mythos quote:

The defense limit. It's a carry over from dd1 sorry. Basically every player would have their on defense limit that they could build whatever you like within the limit. That way, you wouldn't have one guy building all the defenses or trying to take control of the group. It simply couldn't be done, because they would hit their own defense limit.

Well why on Earth did they do away with that?

Apparently i'm awful at clarifying, sorry. Defense units worked just like the system works now. i was merely suggesting one idea to how i'd fix it by giving every player their own cap.

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[[68753,users]] quote:

Great idea!  Won't work in this situation, though.


The problem is not that "some people like to play this way, and some people like to play that way."  The problem is the game only rewards playing one way.  We've already "taken out a play style of certain players to give the others their play style."

That's only the beginning of the vision mate. Customization are possible. Now what if I added an option to the server list, for you to create a room, where people only have access to the Deck? What if there's a togle to wether you're deck limited or not? What if there's even an option for a single hero per person? 

The idea isn't perfect, but a server list would definitely allow people to customize things further into a more friendly ambient of his playing way

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[[68753,users]] quote:

Why does everyone want to play like this?

Yes, I know your Aura does 2 more DPS than mine.  I'd still like to actually play the game and build stuff, not give you all my mana then go fap in the corner.  We're going to win either way, so who cares if we could "win better" by having you build everything?

Something tells me you're the kind of guy that drops 14 auras in one lane. It's people like you that make me want to tell everyone to stand in a corner while I set everything up. -_-

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Personal limits on DU would be amazing..

I recently reached level 20 for 3 characters. The game has turned into throne room apprentice turrets with boost & lightning auras. I used to think explosive trap spam was the worst thing to happen to the game, now I start up the game, find a session, notice the leader of the room is a apprentice who I've seen do the throne room tactic.

I then leave and go play some other game where I get to actually play the game.



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You can already have a personal limit on DU by simply not giving your mana and using it to build your defenses. With all these restriction ideas, have you guys considered the case where someone doesn't want to build?

I don't think any more-or-less confusing restriction is the solution. Instead, we should think of ways to make people feel useful. Something which would make every player an asset.

For example they could change speccing affect towers more than the gear and make speccing more meaningful. This would allow players speccing on one tower making it really powerful. However this also need careful balancing to make every tower useful/needed. With these 2-3 defense tactics this wouldn't really have any effect.

Another idea is to allow players use mana to "boost" other players towers with your stats. Perhaps giving them your spec bonuses or something from your gear.

Then another idea is to make DPS role more meaningful to make people more actively participate during rounds. More ogres, more special enemies which can wreck your defenses.

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Dunno if its been thought of or stated or said or whatever wording you want to use cause i didnt take the time to read every post (read most of page 1).


I think the largest problem which causes these other problems is the system that places you in games which is also effected by the games population. 


Lets start with the population...read through various threads on here a lot of people like to solo or just play with friends. This is not a bad thing in and of itself, but because of this a lot of new players are taking a long time to learn because the ones that DO play public rarely explain why their build works compared to whatever the newbies would have been doing which then causes the more experienced players to look like jerks causing people to leave games which then runs into problem #2...Match making system.  All it does is go through a list of current public games and stick you in the first one with an open spot...even if you JUST left that game because someone was either being toxic or misunderstood...for whatever reason you left the game yet the only game you will find for atleast 10-15 minutes is this game (maybe even longer).  This then causes people to quit playing public games, thus decreasing the overall public population, or quit playing altogether because they keep seeing the same person over and over and over when they obviously do not want to be in said persons game.   Problem #2 then loops back into problem #1 (lack of public game player base) in a vicious cycle.


A personal blacklist so you cannot join games with individuals placed on it (and they cannot join your games) would be near pointless at this time because every day I have played, I go public game, run into toxic player, try to find a different public match, fail, maybe play a solo match or two and realize just how stupid it is with lowered xp and lowered item drop, then quit playing all together for a few hours or even a day or two, rinse and repeat.  Highly doubt i am the only person experiencing this and its just depressing.  I start my computer, look at DD2 icon and go "mm not right now" even though I think about playing DD2 and how to build my characters and layouts for different maps, I just cannot get up the drive to want to login because its ***ing horrible playing with people dead set on ruining a game and you cannot escape them with the current tools at our disposal. 


Anyways, thats my thought and it is kinda sorta maybe related to the topic?


TL:DR ? Low population, bad match making system, lack of tools and people not explaining things and reasons snowballing into "why bother?" territory.

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[[14125,users]] quote:

You can already have a personal limit on DU by simply not giving your mana and using it to build your defenses. With all these restriction ideas, have you guys considered the case where someone doesn't want to build?

I don't think any more-or-less confusing restriction is the solution. Instead, we should think of ways to make people feel useful. Something which would make every player an asset.

For example they could change speccing affect towers more than the gear and make speccing more meaningful. This would allow players speccing on one tower making it really powerful. However this also need careful balancing to make every tower useful/needed. With these 2-3 defense tactics this wouldn't really have any effect.

Another idea is to allow players use mana to "boost" other players towers with your stats. Perhaps giving them your spec bonuses or something from your gear.

Then another idea is to make DPS role more meaningful to make people more actively participate during rounds. More ogres, more special enemies which can wreck your defenses.

If anything the dps role is over represented so everyone is forced into that role after building, before the round starts. I think if anything we should be encouraging builders to do stuff during the waves in new interesting ways. Maybe temporary defenses that can be built on key locations of that map during a wave they disappear when the wave end.

unfortunately we don't have a du limit for each player by the new mana mechanic. There are still trolls and elitists that insist on building everything because they have the best stats. I play a tower defense game to.. call me crazy, build towers. There shouldn't be asshats in games demanding otherwise.  That's why  du per player limit would reduce that level of trolling and force players to come together to work as a team to overcome challenges.

You antisocial single player types could keep deck swapping when playing alone or something.  Wouldn't be that hard to code in. Win win for everyone.

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I personally find it very enjoyable to control the whole map and build it all out. I also find it fun to sit back and support others in their builds.  So I chose what I do depending on what I feel like doing at the time.  If you look at the results of the first Influence Vote the majority clearly love having a choice.  Restricting the game to one play style only benefits those who prefer that particular play style.  

Some like playing solo while others love multi player.  Some like talking while others just focus on playing.  Some like building while others just like dps.  DD1 allowed people to do all of this.  I had no problems interacting with people in DD1.  If they wanted to build a map themselves I either let them and supported their build or I left and built my own.  Many in DD1 were able to communicate exactly the play style they were using through the server name.  Gutu mentioned something similar.  By building upon a server list and having additional options to sort, you can likely find the game that suits you best. 

Forcing everyone to build would ruin the game for many. Forcing players to interact would ruin the game for many. Why? because people typically don't like being "Forced" to do things. Why would I play this game or any other if I am forced to play in a way that doesn't suit my play style? Basically I don't. Others won't as well. It is not much fun then.  The hero deck is too restrictive as it is with no upside to it.  If it moved to 1 character or to individual DU as some have suggested, I would know to quit the game right then.  I have no doubts some would enjoy having just 1 character in their deck but it is not for me.  Funny thing is though they can do that now if they want by not adding more characters to the deck.  I fully support them having the option to do that.  I just would love the option to have access to all of my characters as well.

Options are almost always better than restrictions.  Having options allows each individual player decide how much or how little to restrict themselves when they play.

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ddace quote:

I personally find it very enjoyable to control the whole map and build it all out. I also find it fun to sit back and support others in their builds.  So I chose what I do depending on what I feel like doing at the time.  If you look at the results of the first Influence Vote the majority clearly love having a choice.  Restricting the game to one play style only benefits those who prefer that particular play style.  

Some like playing solo while others love multi player.  Some like talking while others just focus on playing.  Some like building while others just like dps.  DD1 allowed people to do all of this.  I had no problems interacting with people in DD1.  If they wanted to build a map themselves I either let them and supported their build or I left and built my own.  Many in DD1 were able to communicate exactly the play style they were using through the server name.  Gutu mentioned something similar.  By building upon a server list and having additional options to sort, you can likely find the game that suits you best. 

Forcing everyone to build would ruin the game for many. Forcing players to interact would ruin the game for many. Why? because people typically don't like being "Forced" to do things. Why would I play this game or any other if I am forced to play in a way that doesn't suit my play style? Basically I don't. Others won't as well. It is not much fun then.  The hero deck is too restrictive as it is with no upside to it.  If it moved to 1 character or to individual DU as some have suggested, I would know to quit the game right then.  I have no doubts some would enjoy having just 1 character in their deck but it is not for me.  Funny thing is though they can do that now if they want by not adding more characters to the deck.  I fully support them having the option to do that.  I just would love the option to have access to all of my characters as well.

Options are almost always better than restrictions.  Having options allows each individual player decide how much or how little to restrict themselves when they play.

I get what you are saying and I agree with your general philosophy of less control = better gameplay. Unfortunately what you are avocading and what is actually happening is two sperate things. The irony is the gane is restriictive as is. People are asking for you to hand over your mana on start or you get harassed. You are forced to play a dps hero between building rounds to stay viable. There really isn't a choice currently.

even if you are locked into one hero for 5 rounds is that such a big deal? Just switch to a different hero for the next game you want to play. You still have control to play what you want, just not for the 15 to 20 minutes a normal game takes. Unless someone has ADD that shouldn't be that big of an issue.

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Mythos quote:


ddace quote:

I personally find it very enjoyable to control the whole map and build it all out. I also find it fun to sit back and support others in their builds.  So I chose what I do depending on what I feel like doing at the time.  If you look at the results of the first Influence Vote the majority clearly love having a choice.  Restricting the game to one play style only benefits those who prefer that particular play style.  

Some like playing solo while others love multi player.  Some like talking while others just focus on playing.  Some like building while others just like dps.  DD1 allowed people to do all of this.  I had no problems interacting with people in DD1.  If they wanted to build a map themselves I either let them and supported their build or I left and built my own.  Many in DD1 were able to communicate exactly the play style they were using through the server name.  Gutu mentioned something similar.  By building upon a server list and having additional options to sort, you can likely find the game that suits you best. 

Forcing everyone to build would ruin the game for many. Forcing players to interact would ruin the game for many. Why? because people typically don't like being "Forced" to do things. Why would I play this game or any other if I am forced to play in a way that doesn't suit my play style? Basically I don't. Others won't as well. It is not much fun then.  The hero deck is too restrictive as it is with no upside to it.  If it moved to 1 character or to individual DU as some have suggested, I would know to quit the game right then.  I have no doubts some would enjoy having just 1 character in their deck but it is not for me.  Funny thing is though they can do that now if they want by not adding more characters to the deck.  I fully support them having the option to do that.  I just would love the option to have access to all of my characters as well.

Options are almost always better than restrictions.  Having options allows each individual player decide how much or how little to restrict themselves when they play.

I get what you are saying and I agree with your general philosophy of less control = better gameplay. Unfortunately what you are avocading and what is actually happening is two sperate things. The irony is the gane is restriictive as is. People are asking for you to hand over your mana on start or you get harassed. You are forced to play a dps hero between building rounds to stay viable. There really isn't a choice currently.

even if you are locked into one hero for 5 rounds is that such a big deal? Just switch to a different hero for the next game you want to play. You still have control to play what you want, just not for the 15 to 20 minutes a normal game takes. Unless someone has ADD that shouldn't be that big of an issue.

I completely disagree on every level with you. Restricting building in DD will never ever be an improvement. I like to play multiplayer and build the whole map, then next run not build a single tower and compare builds, then another run build with others simultaneously. I should have the choice to do ANY of that. If you were to restrict building in the game, it would become a single player game lose a good 75% of its flavor. It already has a very low playbase, I don't think it needs to lose more players.


Like I said in my previous post, all they need to do is LET YOU CHOOSE YOUR LOBBY. Play with who you want to play in public. This random match making brought this problem. It forces you to play with people you don't want to play with. You can't create your own lobby, you're thrown into maps that are already built. It is just a bad system. Give us back the lobby list. More options = better gameplay, it has always been this way.

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[[5651,users]] quote:

I get what you are saying and I agree with your general philosophy of less control = better gameplay. Unfortunately what you are avocading and what is actually happening is two sperate things. The irony is the gane is restriictive as is. People are asking for you to hand over your mana on start or you get harassed. You are forced to play a dps hero between building rounds to stay viable. There really isn't a choice currently.

even if you are locked into one hero for 5 rounds is that such a big deal? Just switch to a different hero for the next game you want to play. You still have control to play what you want, just not for the 15 to 20 minutes a normal game takes. Unless someone has ADD that shouldn't be that big of an issue.

You have a choice not to give them the mana. I'm not saying the actual system is anywhere near good, god i hate only having matchmaking system, which is why i even suggested the server list where people will join the people who want to play the same way they do or that it has spot for the role they're feeling like playing.

Dungeon Defenders isn't really a game that will benefit from trying to fix problems with forced means restricting anybody. There is indeed a problem, but the solution is not in adding extra restriction. 

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[[5651,users]] quote:


ddace quote:

I personally find it very enjoyable to control the whole map and build it all out. I also find it fun to sit back and support others in their builds.  So I chose what I do depending on what I feel like doing at the time.  If you look at the results of the first Influence Vote the majority clearly love having a choice.  Restricting the game to one play style only benefits those who prefer that particular play style.  

Some like playing solo while others love multi player.  Some like talking while others just focus on playing.  Some like building while others just like dps.  DD1 allowed people to do all of this.  I had no problems interacting with people in DD1.  If they wanted to build a map themselves I either let them and supported their build or I left and built my own.  Many in DD1 were able to communicate exactly the play style they were using through the server name.  Gutu mentioned something similar.  By building upon a server list and having additional options to sort, you can likely find the game that suits you best. 

Forcing everyone to build would ruin the game for many. Forcing players to interact would ruin the game for many. Why? because people typically don't like being "Forced" to do things. Why would I play this game or any other if I am forced to play in a way that doesn't suit my play style? Basically I don't. Others won't as well. It is not much fun then.  The hero deck is too restrictive as it is with no upside to it.  If it moved to 1 character or to individual DU as some have suggested, I would know to quit the game right then.  I have no doubts some would enjoy having just 1 character in their deck but it is not for me.  Funny thing is though they can do that now if they want by not adding more characters to the deck.  I fully support them having the option to do that.  I just would love the option to have access to all of my characters as well.

Options are almost always better than restrictions.  Having options allows each individual player decide how much or how little to restrict themselves when they play.

I get what you are saying and I agree with your general philosophy of less control = better gameplay. Unfortunately what you are avocading and what is actually happening is two sperate things. The irony is the gane is restriictive as is. People are asking for you to hand over your mana on start or you get harassed. You are forced to play a dps hero between building rounds to stay viable. There really isn't a choice currently.

even if you are locked into one hero for 5 rounds is that such a big deal? Just switch to a different hero for the next game you want to play. You still have control to play what you want, just not for the 15 to 20 minutes a normal game takes. Unless someone has ADD that shouldn't be that big of an issue.

I know people getting harassed does happen sadly. I guess I dont let that ruin the game for me.  I learned to just move on because it will happen in every multiplayer game.  Some people just havent learned to play well with others.

Also, there are many reasons I may wish to switch within a game.  While I have not had ADD, I do like to analyze different situations and possibly change out defenses or use a different dps char to support the team better.  I may also want to just level a char while providing a little support to my defenses.  Every situation is different.  Even the same map that you have played 100 times will be different in some way when playing with new people each time.

You are right in that being stuck on a char is not a "bad" thing for 20 minutes.  However I want the game I play to be a "great" thing.  The problem is that I may only have 20 minutes to play.  If I only have 20 minutes, why play something that is just "not bad" or "OK"?  So this is a huge issue for me.

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    [[43252,users]] quote:

    You have a choice not to give them the mana. I'm not saying the actual system is anywhere near good, god i hate only having matchmaking system, which is why i even suggested the server list where people will join the people who want to play the same way they do or that it has spot for the role they're feeling like playing.

That choise would only exist if you cant kick them. Which from my short DDE experience was a terrible thing as the only type of player i did see join were people who just spammer overkill towers, or afkers. In DD2 i havent been playing public games (so dont even know if you cant kick) but i already was sick of the way it went in DDE. Especialy since there with the gear they had they just covered the whole map with auras and archers every single time resulting in boring games. And they also just sold your towers as they were useless. The only thing you could do was leave yourself or not have a public game.

If you can kick then you can just kick the one who doesnt give mana to you and someone else on the team gets it. So that would be their workaround in DD2 then. So refusing to give them mana is again going to be useless.

Even in DD1 i noticed the same behaviour. You dont give them your mana, you just start building. 2 seconds later your defenses are sold already. A simple kick is enough to stop that behaviour. So if you want to avoid such type of players, you just become the lobby leader.

To me the only real fix to stop such behaviour is by giving a huge penalty when people want to play such way. If they want to do that, they have to play with less players resulting in less good loot aswel. Thats what you get with your behaviour of not letting others have the fun of building.

My 2nd suggestion did enforce them to such restriction by making an extreme DU usage for them completely useless. The penalty would become too big so it wouldnt give them any gain. They still could do that, but they would be better of giving others some DU. I did work out the table in excel to show the damage modifiers people would get as an example of that.

du%20balance.png

As you can see in that image, at 2 players you would start getting issues when exceeding 625. but even at 750 usage you would only get a 17% penalty which in most cases can still be accepted. At 3 players you however are going to find issues much faster and would reach that same state on 420 where at 500 you would again have that 17% penalty. But at the most extreme example of using all the DU on a 4 player game you get a 69% penalty. You are better off leaving the 250 DU alone as that would barely matter in your damage output.

The idea is not to restrict them from building at all, but its ment to not go over the top and just take all the DU 'because your stuff is better'. If you do that its very likely that at some point it no longer is. Even in the DD1 games i played, if the main builder took over 70% of the DU, the remainder is enough for the other players to have fun with.

And there is also a reason why i dont exclude DPS players. If a tower builder would give the main builder a penalty, it would be kick worthy for him. So on that they are equal. Best of all is that if you did level 3 chars you can just remove the penalty on changing the class using the system above. If they changed class to make a few strong combos, they still would have to be carefull to the DU limit for them.

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Alias quote:


To me the only real fix to stop such behaviour is by giving a huge penalty when people want to play such way. If they want to do that, they have to play with less players resulting in less good loot aswel. Thats what you get with your behaviour of not letting others have the fun of building.

Man all I can say is that I will never play DD again if they implement this. The day you can't build a whole map in multiplayer because of restrictions like that is the day the game lose all its re-playability, and that's a fact.

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This is most of the reason I play in private with friends or alone, I don't like being carried through every game its terrible.

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[[57051,users]] quote:


emtwo quote:

Why does everyone want to play like this?

Yes, I know your Aura does 2 more DPS than mine.  I'd still like to actually play the game and build stuff, not give you all my mana then go fap in the corner.  We're going to win either way, so who cares if we could "win better" by having you build everything?

I remember back in the day (DD1), I wanted to be that guy who was able to build for everyone. That's almost what kind of drove me to continue playing, to get the best gear available, so that I could carry other players through a difficult map. Of course, after 500 hours of sitting back and being carried, I still wasn't that guy who could carry, so I quit.

that was you i was carrying that whole time MAN you were so heavy :)

to the OP's point though many of us hate that "gimme all your mana" crap, the positive side effects of not being able to sell others stuff and no kicks is that you can reply with a kind middle finger and do your own thing. I am all about team work and in the original DD I could do everything solo,making it easy to fill in where i was needed. Solo play is tiresome though and i always preferred to  play with others. Don't be a victim of the Mana Bully

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[[15638,users]] quote:


emtwo quote:

Why does everyone want to play like this?

Yes, I know your Aura does 2 more DPS than mine.  I'd still like to actually play the game and build stuff, not give you all my mana then go fap in the corner.  We're going to win either way, so who cares if we could "win better" by having you build everything?

Something tells me you're the kind of guy that drops 14 auras in one lane. It's people like you that make me want to tell everyone to stand in a corner while I set everything up. -_-

See what I mean?  This guy's never even talked to me - let alone played with me - and he's already assuming that I'm going to lose the game for him.  What a joke.


You can <i>assume</i> I'm bad if you want, but we have <i>proof</i> that you're an a-hole.

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[[68753,users]] quote:


Geewoody quote:


emtwo quote:

Why does everyone want to play like this?

Yes, I know your Aura does 2 more DPS than mine.  I'd still like to actually play the game and build stuff, not give you all my mana then go fap in the corner.  We're going to win either way, so who cares if we could "win better" by having you build everything?

Something tells me you're the kind of guy that drops 14 auras in one lane. It's people like you that make me want to tell everyone to stand in a corner while I set everything up. -_-

See what I mean?  This guy's never even talked to me - let alone played with me - and he's already assuming that I'm going to lose the game for him.  What a joke.


You can <i>assume</i> I'm bad if you want, but we have <i>proof</i> that you're an a-hole.

No need to start attacking each other, and he said "want to" not "do" so you are also assuming. So cut back on personal attacks.

One thing we can sure learn from the replies here is there are different playstyles and the 2 defended and put forth here are not compatible with each other. I know I will leave as soon as someone starts demanding to get everyones mana and that he will be the sole builder as I have no time to waste time on a round that I won't like. If I wanted to just play a dps co-op I have other and better options next to Dungeon Defenders.

But I respect the people that want to play that way, but there should be a way to indicate what playstyle you like so the matchmaker can at least can keep an eye on it and not put the opposite playstyles together which will only lead to bad blood.

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