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Is swapping class mid-round a positive mechanic?

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I find that the ability to change your class to another character (and do so repeatedly) removes much of the teamwork aspect of multiplayer. It also severely downplays any sense of agency you get from having a character of a particular spec (tower, hero etc) as you can do both at the same time.

It's quite disheartening to join a map with 28 lightning auras and no monks, or worse yet, be in a map and have a 'solo' tell you to delete all your stuff so they can build all four classes' defenses in their own particular manner by themselves, essentially asking you to AFK to a free win, rather than trying to hammer the teamwork together.

The mechanic felt cheap in DD1, and it feels just as bad in the new version.

Every time i see this mechanic being used by a player, the game becomes much easier, and consequently much less fun, for me at least.

You effectively have a hero-stat build with tower-stat towers, and 100% coverage of tower synergies/abilities: not to mention constant access to any flavour-of-the-month overpowered towers etc.

I understand that the devs want the game to be soloable, but it feels like they remove any reason to have a group at all by allowing this to continue.

So I would ask: Who likes this mechanic? Who does not?

For those who like it - do you find the game still challenging, even while using it? Do you find yourself unable to cope without?

For those who don't - do you feel like swapping classes is cheating? Does another player in your group using this mechanic lessen your enjoyment of the game?

Is there a different way to maintain the ability to solo in this game, without impacting all sense of agency/teamwork in multiplayer? Or is leveling all classes simultaneously, and using all of them in one level an intended 'correct' way to play the game?

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I like it, but i understand some don't which is why i made this Server List Suggestion, instead of trying to get the majority of people to play a single game style or type, allow those who want to play together, by having game notes and custom room customizations we would be able to find which game we feel like joining. See a room that the owner claims to co-op, and you'll join them to co-op. Are you feeling lazy and just want to dps? Join a room that the person is building all. Personally i love to play co-op but i also like to solo or dps sometimes, there's no specific on what i do it has to do with my mood (specially when the rest of the team is not co-op-ing) 

I believe DD2 is a game that brings a lot of different people together to play 'cause of it's many play styles brought together, and we should not limit other people into their way of playing.

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While the server idea does allow some breathing room, it doesn't change the fact that the game is substantially easier if you do the 'solo swap' thing, despite being in multiplayer.

The 'play only one class' servers would be more difficult than the other servers, yet receive no benefit for raising the difficulty (other than the potential satisfaction of playing a multiplayer game in a more traditional manner).

In my experience, the 'optimal' multiplayer playstyle (easiest) will always garner the most players, regardless of whether it is the most fun: which is why I'd argue that the presence of the mechanic, at all, is detrimental to the multiplayer game.

If soloing is a balance factor, then it should be approached from a wave-scaling standpoint, and cater the ability to solo in a one player room to be balanced to one player of one class. I have nothing wrong with soloing as a playstyle - and if they made it so that one player could have an enjoyable, balanced experience with one class, one spec, no swapping, I'd probably indulge in it myself.

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i haven't gotten very far in DD2 myself but in DD1 even with being able to change to all the classes it still felt challenging. To answer the question about coping without being able to swap, that comes down to balanced. For solo i don't see it being possible at all without dumbing the game down majorly. I personally don't like the hero deck but in multiplayer i can see it being a good thing. i also think that being limited to one builder per person in multiplayer can be a good thing but you have to let people turn that off if they want. limiting the ways people can play will actually push more people away than the current issues would.

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[[22795,users]] quote:

i haven't gotten very far in DD2 myself but in DD1 even with being able to change to all the classes it still felt challenging. To answer the question about coping without being able to swap, that comes down to balanced. For solo i don't see it being possible at all without dumbing the game down majorly. I personally don't like the hero deck but in multiplayer i can see it being a good thing. i also think that being limited to one builder per person in multiplayer can be a good thing but you have to let people turn that off if they want. limiting the ways people can play will actually push more people away than the current issues would.

Completely agree.

1 positive way of increasing the difficulty for solo-play is by realizing that the only exploitable difference between solo and co-op play is there is 1 champion vs 4 champions (which is the 'kick' solo players get in the first place). Spawning 2 ogres at the simultaneously in all 4 gates and balance it using 4 champions. Hence solo might still be do-able but definitely a lot harder. All future difficulties can also be balanced with 4 active champions in mind.

Trying to limit the ways that players can play their game is a detrimental way to increase difficulty on solo play.

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[[68901,users]] quote:

I find that the ability to change your class to another character (and do so repeatedly) removes much of the teamwork aspect of multiplayer. It also severely downplays any sense of agency you get from having a character of a particular spec (tower, hero etc) as you can do both at the same time.

It's quite disheartening to join a map with 28 lightning auras and no monks, or worse yet, be in a map and have a 'solo' tell you to delete all your stuff so they can build all four classes' defenses in their own particular manner by themselves, essentially asking you to AFK to a free win, rather than trying to hammer the teamwork together.

The mechanic felt cheap in DD1, and it feels just as bad in the new version.

Every time i see this mechanic being used by a player, the game becomes much easier, and consequently much less fun, for me at least.

You effectively have a hero-stat build with tower-stat towers, and 100% coverage of tower synergies/abilities: not to mention constant access to any flavour-of-the-month overpowered towers etc.

I understand that the devs want the game to be soloable, but it feels like they remove any reason to have a group at all by allowing this to continue.

So I would ask: Who likes this mechanic? Who does not?

For those who like it - do you find the game still challenging, even while using it? Do you find yourself unable to cope without?

For those who don't - do you feel like swapping classes is cheating? Does another player in your group using this mechanic lessen your enjoyment of the game?

Is there a different way to maintain the ability to solo in this game, without impacting all sense of agency/teamwork in multiplayer? Or is leveling all classes simultaneously, and using all of them in one level an intended 'correct' way to play the game?

I completely agree and have made similar posts. Hopefully it gets some further attention from the developers. I think there are a lot of old school dd1 die hard fans on this forum at this point that overwhelm any other feedback. I never liked this mechanic in dd1. Sometimes the initial setup would take 10+ minutes constantly swapping characters to get all the towers in. I would much rather you play as a 4 player team, and everyone gets one character to pick at the start and that's it. Separate tower and hero skill trees so you can be effective at both.

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While i'd agree that simply removing it has an impact on solo play, it does not change the fact that its a problem for multiplayer.

Without knowing the numbers of what percentage of players solo, and what percentage play multiplayer - guessing whether more players would like the change, or be driven away by it is largely meaningless.



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Well it is more limited then DD1 was, at least there is only room for 3 heroes, which is fine for solo players. But in a full team multiplayer I find it redundant and to be honest even holding the game back, reasons below.

Whenever I join a random team there is a big chance that someone will yell at you that he is dedicated builder and will put up all defences needed. And if this happens I feel I'm better off going to play Borderlands co-op as that is what this games boils down to then, just a fancy action based co-op game with zero TD mechanics in.

I know forcing people to play one way or another can be bad, but at least if you go multiplayer in a co-op you may at least expect co-op in every aspect of the game and the deck should be limited to only 1 hero, or 2 heroes if it is a party of 2.

And to counter the part where you want to use a dedicated builder character and then swap out to a hero not geared towards defences, there should be put in a mechanic of multiple gearset. So that on one hero you can go full focused on defences on one gearset and one on focus of hero stats on the other. But with the above limit of number of heroes in your deck co-op is still required in the building phase of the game as well.

And for those that realy want to play just that action based game with not having to care about defences because someone else will put all them up, there should be an option to disable said limitation. But they will only be joined with other players that have disabled those limitation. Make it even so that they can set if they want to be the builder or not.

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Maybe just have a "single player" mode that doesn't connect to the internet and you have complete freedom to swap your heroes. Those that connect to multiplayer cannot swap heroes mid game. Problem solved.

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[[5651,users]] quote:

Maybe just have a "single player" mode that doesn't connect to the internet and you have complete freedom to swap your heroes. Those that connect to multiplayer cannot swap heroes mid game. Problem solved.

Easier solution: limit yourself to 1 character and play only with like-minded people. 

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lordrahl quote:


Mythos quote:

Maybe just have a "single player" mode that doesn't connect to the internet and you have complete freedom to swap your heroes. Those that connect to multiplayer cannot swap heroes mid game. Problem solved.

Easier solution: limit yourself to 1 character and play only with like-minded people. 

This  doesn't fix the issue because people with lots of time on their hands will utilize hero in a map solo screwing up the economy.  Than you have other issues like balance.  Will the game get balanced around people cheesing the game with character swapping or will it be balanced around traditional teamwork. It's not as easy as playing with like minded people.

There are other issues like it creating a toxic environment and discouraging cooperation. It also limits creativity with builds as right now everyone already expects you to abuse lighting aura + geyser traps as is. 

It's also time consuming and adds unnessisary are setup time between rounds. I honestly think it was one of the least favorite mechanics amount myself and friends. It got really tiresome trying to balance all the characters on one map, constantly swapping to get the most out of your builds. And the game was balanced around it forcing players into it if they wanted to progress. The system doesn't work well and needs to go bottom line.


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My problem with the whole mentality of balancing the game around multiplayer is that you start to lose the challenge that DD1 had. in DD1 there's no way you could play the end game content with random people. you had to have a plan. if they balanced it around being able to play with random people then there would be little challenge left in the game and ide see it dieing out fast. i NEVER played multiplayer with anyone than my 3  friends and 2 of them didn't have as good building sets as i had. if you expect us to all have good sets and then build individually then building is going to take twice as long and getting any progression is going to take long as well because you have to have each individual person geared, and then you also have to be able to all play at the same time.

As for solo players ruining the economy, i don't see that as being a problem. if people who play with a group of friends can do just as good if not better than they are going to have more and better loot.

If people truly want the hero deck to remain or even be more limiting at least leave it out of private games or allow people to change a setting for the game. I don't want the headache of having to play with other people that i don't know or want to play with and i don't want to be limited in how i play. I also don't want to see the game balanced into the ground over this issue.

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Tresdezara quote:

My problem with the whole mentality of balancing the game around multiplayer is that you start to lose the challenge that DD1 had. in DD1 there's no way you could play the end game content with random people. you had to have a plan. if they balanced it around being able to play with random people then there would be little challenge left in the game and ide see it dieing out fast. i NEVER played multiplayer with anyone than my 3  friends and 2 of them didn't have as good building sets as i had. if you expect us to all have good sets and then build individually then building is going to take twice as long and getting any progression is going to take long as well because you have to have each individual person geared, and then you also have to be able to all play at the same time.

As for solo players ruining the economy, i don't see that as being a problem. if people who play with a group of friends can do just as good if not better than they are going to have more and better loot.

If people truly want the hero deck to remain or even be more limiting at least leave it out of private games or allow people to change a setting for the game. I don't want the headache of having to play with other people that i don't know or want to play with and i don't want to be limited in how i play. I also don't want to see the game balanced into the ground over this issue.

I find it more challenging working as a group than one person doing everything. And I am sorry, 4 people building is quicker than one constantly switching between all their heros to do the building for everyone else. That attitude is toxic in a muliplayer environment. Everyone should be able to contribute and play to their playstyle anyway they see fit. We play games for fun after all. I actually hate the builder set / fps set mechanic. It limits play a lot. I have friends who enjoy building for example, but are pigeon holed into having a dps hero because builders do not have a place during a round. I for example love both the tower defense aspect of the game and also love action rpg aspect of the game but I am forced to pick one (hybrid spec just isn't viable endgame). I don't like that. Why not have separate talent trees and gear choices so all characters can contribute to both aspects? This no longer forces players to choose one or the other and everyone can play the game the way they want to.

You can still make really interesting hard skill choices and interesting tower stats and skill trees to maintain thought provoking choices and rpg elements. Yes it would be more work for the developers, but it would pay of with a very deep interesting rpg elements.

Some of the current developer design decisions are not the best in my opinion. DD1 was riddled with bad design (and yes, some very good design as well). It never really felt polished to me.

Idea 1:

You level up, you get 2 points to spend on 6-8 different tower orientated skills, you also get 2 points for 6-8 heroic specific skills. All armor pieces have heroic specific stats. Rings, necklace + whatever else, has tower specific skills. Leave the totem as is to have a little bit of specialization. Since you will still need to have interesting gear choices, the game would need a few more modifiers. Some ideas for heros could be +flat elemental dmg, %elemental dmg, life leech, %damage reduction, multistrike, whatever other creative ideas the developers can come up with. Likewise there would be a few more tower specific stats to maintain interesting choices. Eliminate deck switching for players > 1. Now everyone can contribute, you still have good interesting rpg choices, and you have to play as a team and cooperate without someone trolling the game.

Idea 2:

 Keep deck switching but everyone has their own defense limit cap. Not my favorite choice but works as an easy short term fix. I don't like this as much because if a tower / aura trap goes down, you have to go back to the forge, switch your hero, replace, go back to the forge every round which is still clunky.

Idea 3: 

Defenses you play on a character you are not using have a 35% reduction in that players stats. For example towers would attack 33% slower, do 33% less damage, and have 33% less health. This is just an example, the numbers would have to be balanced. This is how it sorta was in DD1. I felt like it was a bandaid fix to the issue at best. I was hoping it would be further address in dd2.

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I find it more challenging working as a group than one person doing everything. And I am sorry, 4 people building is quicker than one constantly switching between all their heros to do the building for everyone else. That attitude is toxic in a muliplayer environment. Everyone should be able to contribute and play to their playstyle anyway they see fit. We play games for fun after all. I actually hate the builder set / fps set mechanic. It limits play a lot.

It feels more challenging if you're playing with people who either don't co-op. 'Cause if you actually play with a descent organized team it's way easier than one person building.

I'm a person that like organization and building with a purpose, random people spamming defenses at each place without thinking of what the other is doing doesn't anywhere show any fun for me, so usually i prefer to play solo and build all by myself unless the other person can actually communicate or follow a building idea.

I'm not trying to put down anybody or anything or any play style, it's my opinion alone, when there's somebody with better gear than me, i step aside the man worked let's see what he does. I don't like getting carried so I will help in what i can. However sometimes i do feel lazy and just dps to help.

There's a difference between playing

  • with somebody who's clearly stronger than you, where you're just in the way and you should most likely leave and try to reach him. ( if you don't want to get carried simply join something that you're actually up for instead)
  • with somebody who's at your level and will play coop, communicate and all (very easy the game isn't reall prepared for this kind of situations)
  • with somebody who's simply random and doesn't care, does his own thing for no reason and doesn't communicate    ( challenging, but in a bad way, not fun to me if people can't communicate/follow a strategy)


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Well DD2 has a better ping system as DD1, which gives better communication possibilities. But if you understand with communication: 'build X tower on spot Y' then the current system isn't enough. Also I don't call that communication I call that bullying and takes away from my fun.

But either way how we like to play the current system has more flaws that it took over from the original. Like "needing" to swap to a dps geared hero for the combat wave. This flaw comes forth from how stat distribution is done. The defence and hero stats in my opinion shouldn't have been seperated. But we have it now, and in this situation hero swapping is kind of needed.

To solve it there are multiple solutions, the first one is to simplify the stats and consolodate them into one stat that influences both hero and defences. Like hero dmg and defence power forged into one stat.

The other is give defences a buff when the hero that build it is stil around, this buff should be just strong enough to mitigate the need for the builder to swap to a dps build. Or an even more radical version of this that the stats gained from items is only active when the hero is present.

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Why do you people want more restriction? I really don't get it. How is forcing one way of playstyle gonna be beneficial in the long run for the game? 

switching characters means diversity, diversity is always good in a multiplayer game that aims to last...



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[[69034,users]] quote:

Well DD2 has a better ping system as DD1, which gives better communication possibilities. But if you understand with communication: 'build X tower on spot Y' then the current system isn't enough. Also I don't call that communication I call that bullying and takes away from my fun.

But either way how we like to play the current system has more flaws that it took over from the original. Like "needing" to swap to a dps geared hero for the combat wave. This flaw comes forth from how stat distribution is done. The defence and hero stats in my opinion shouldn't have been seperated. But we have it now, and in this situation hero swapping is kind of needed.

To solve it there are multiple solutions, the first one is to simplify the stats and consolodate them into one stat that influences both hero and defences. Like hero dmg and defence power forged into one stat.

The other is give defences a buff when the hero that build it is stil around, this buff should be just strong enough to mitigate the need for the builder to swap to a dps build. Or an even more radical version of this that the stats gained from items is only active when the hero is present.

people don't even do what you ask with the pings, that doesn't change anything about them cooperating or not, the fact is that you're trying to force people to coop with people who have no clue how to coop.

Basically you want people to play with a single character and that single character to be amazing and building and dpsing? 

Also how can you call it building, if in a certain place i think a certain tower that your character has that should be placed there.. that's bullying? How..?

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[[43252,users]] quote:


Ydyp quote:

Well DD2 has a better ping system as DD1, which gives better communication possibilities. But if you understand with communication: 'build X tower on spot Y' then the current system isn't enough. Also I don't call that communication I call that bullying and takes away from my fun.

But either way how we like to play the current system has more flaws that it took over from the original. Like "needing" to swap to a dps geared hero for the combat wave. This flaw comes forth from how stat distribution is done. The defence and hero stats in my opinion shouldn't have been seperated. But we have it now, and in this situation hero swapping is kind of needed.

To solve it there are multiple solutions, the first one is to simplify the stats and consolodate them into one stat that influences both hero and defences. Like hero dmg and defence power forged into one stat.

The other is give defences a buff when the hero that build it is stil around, this buff should be just strong enough to mitigate the need for the builder to swap to a dps build. Or an even more radical version of this that the stats gained from items is only active when the hero is present.

people don't even do what you ask with the pings, that doesn't change anything about them cooperating or not, the fact is that you're trying to force people to coop with people who have no clue how to coop.

Basically you want people to play with a single character and that single character to be amazing and building and dpsing? 

Also how can you call it building, if in a certain place i think a certain tower that your character has that should be placed there.. that's bullying? How..?

People with those restricting ideas really don't understand dungeon defenders. It might work if maps never get harder or longer than thrones.... If maps get hard like in DD1 nmhc survival (lab, CD, kings, talay, etc...), all these restricting ideas would just make it IMPOSSIBLE for randoms to complete them. It would either become a single player game or we will need to settle for uninteresting, extremely easy maps like we have now (which is a shame).

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ChilledFrench quote:


Gutu quote:


Ydyp quote:

Well DD2 has a better ping system as DD1, which gives better communication possibilities. But if you understand with communication: 'build X tower on spot Y' then the current system isn't enough. Also I don't call that communication I call that bullying and takes away from my fun.

But either way how we like to play the current system has more flaws that it took over from the original. Like "needing" to swap to a dps geared hero for the combat wave. This flaw comes forth from how stat distribution is done. The defence and hero stats in my opinion shouldn't have been seperated. But we have it now, and in this situation hero swapping is kind of needed.

To solve it there are multiple solutions, the first one is to simplify the stats and consolodate them into one stat that influences both hero and defences. Like hero dmg and defence power forged into one stat.

The other is give defences a buff when the hero that build it is stil around, this buff should be just strong enough to mitigate the need for the builder to swap to a dps build. Or an even more radical version of this that the stats gained from items is only active when the hero is present.

people don't even do what you ask with the pings, that doesn't change anything about them cooperating or not, the fact is that you're trying to force people to coop with people who have no clue how to coop.

Basically you want people to play with a single character and that single character to be amazing and building and dpsing? 

Also how can you call it building, if in a certain place i think a certain tower that your character has that should be placed there.. that's bullying? How..?

People with those restricting ideas really don't understand dungeon defenders. It might work if maps never get harder or longer than thrones.... If maps get hard like in DD1 nmhc survival (lab, CD, kings, talay, etc...), all these restricting ideas would just make it IMPOSSIBLE for randoms to complete them. It would either become a single player game or we will need to settle for uninteresting, extremely easy maps like we have now (which is a shame).

No they wouldn't be impossible, they would just have to be balanced accordingly. There are a lot of cons with the current system you seem to have your blinders on for.

Con List of Current Deck swapping:

-Person with highest stats will always want to build over everyone else, eliminating a core fun mechanic for the rest of the team

-Restricts the game by forcing everyone to choose a dps hero every round

-Greatly increases setup time as it's often one person setting up all the defenses instead of everyone contributing

-Demotes team play by forcing everyone to afk while one person with all the best heros and stats builds 

-Forces players into playing a bunch of heroes players may not be interested in playing just to stay viable

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Mythos quote:

No they wouldn't be impossible, they would just have to be balanced accordingly. There are a lot of cons with the current system you seem to have your blinders on for.

Con List of Current Deck swapping:

-Person with highest stats will always want to build over everyone else, eliminating a core fun mechanic for the rest of the team

-Restricts the game by forcing everyone to choose a dps hero every round

-Greatly increases setup time as it's often one person setting up all the defenses instead of everyone contributing

-Demotes team play by forcing everyone to afk while one person with all the best heros and stats builds 

-Forces players into playing a bunch of heroes players may not be interested in playing just to stay viable

Cons of your ideal way:

  • Person who worked to get good stats is unable to use them.
  • Restricts the game by not allowing you to use other options without going back to tavern, pick the wrong hero for the map? Does that mean a funny trip to the tavern?
  • One person with 1 really good character can still build it all.
  • You don't have option in case one person wants to build it all or if you only have a dpser.
  • Demotes teamplay by being forced to co-op even with people who aren't able gear wise, don't communicate and will ruin the fun, won't co-op in a proper way, have not slightly clue of how the game works and will act aggressively if you try to teach him. 
  • Takes out the option of whether to play multiple heroes or a single hero, turning into a forced single hero.
  • Will make people boss around others telling them what to do.
  • Will promote agressivity from both the bossy people and those who dislike being bossed around.
  • Lack of choice.


Anyway that's just a few, now about your cons.

  1. He worked hard for it, why shouldn't he? Yet you have the option not to give him mana.
  2. :o does it really do that? As far as I know you can still play as a builder, but then again, you have the option it's not a forced limitation.
  3. Usually somebody who plays as much to be far superior than you will be fast as hell to build, also coordinating 4 people who are not used to play together will take longer than building all by yourself.
  4. There's this magical thing called leave button? If you're not at the level to help and are forced to afk and really can't even throw skills then you're actually getting carried. Again you have the choice to afk.
  5. Oh does it? How so? You can play a single hero on the present game and solo all content perfectly.. Solo! There's also multiplayer which would make it way easier. So you do have the option to play as a single hero, i've done it a lot of people have done it, not only on multiplayer but on singleplayer too. But in the end you have the choice on how many heroes you want to use (still limited to 3 which is still a bad limitation)

So yeah.. don't come try to restrict more the playing than we are, if anything else we should be granted more freedom to play the style we want the way we want, the key word is choice , the way it is you have the choice to player your own way, the others refuse to, so you simply aren't finding somebody who wants to play the same way as you, instead of forcing everybody onto something you want, why not bring up a suggestion that allows everybody to be happy playing their own way instead? Why are you trying to do to others what it feels they're doing to you?

Let's go over this issue, and respect everybody's playstyle and not try to cut it out from the game.

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Gutu quote:


Mythos quote:

No they wouldn't be impossible, they would just have to be balanced accordingly. There are a lot of cons with the current system you seem to have your blinders on for.

Con List of Current Deck swapping:

-Person with highest stats will always want to build over everyone else, eliminating a core fun mechanic for the rest of the team

-Restricts the game by forcing everyone to choose a dps hero every round

-Greatly increases setup time as it's often one person setting up all the defenses instead of everyone contributing

-Demotes team play by forcing everyone to afk while one person with all the best heros and stats builds 

-Forces players into playing a bunch of heroes players may not be interested in playing just to stay viable

Cons of your ideal way:

  • Person who worked to get good stats is unable to use them.
  • Restricts the game by not allowing you to use other options without going back to tavern, pick the wrong hero for the map? Does that mean a funny trip to the tavern?
  • One person with 1 really good character can still build it all.
  • You don't have option in case one person wants to build it all or if you only have a dpser.
  • Demotes teamplay by being forced to co-op even with people who aren't able gear wise, don't communicate and will ruin the fun, won't co-op in a proper way, have not slightly clue of how the game works and will act aggressively if you try to teach him. 
  • Takes out the option of whether to play multiple heroes or a single hero, turning into a forced single hero.
  • Will make people boss around others telling them what to do.
  • Will promote agressivity from both the bossy people and those who dislike being bossed around.
  • Lack of choice.


Anyway that's just a few, now about your cons.

  1. He worked hard for it, why shouldn't he? Yet you have the option not to give him mana.
  2. :o does it really do that? As far as I know you can still play as a builder, but then again, you have the option it's not a forced limitation.
  3. Usually somebody who plays as much to be far superior than you will be fast as hell to build, also coordinating 4 people who are not used to play together will take longer than building all by yourself.
  4. There's this magical thing called leave button? If you're not at the level to help and are forced to afk and really can't even throw skills then you're actually getting carried. Again you have the choice to afk.
  5. Oh does it? How so? You can play a single hero on the present game and solo all content perfectly.. Solo! There's also multiplayer which would make it way easier. So you do have the option to play as a single hero, i've done it a lot of people have done it, not only on multiplayer but on singleplayer too. But in the end you have the choice on how many heroes you want to use (still limited to 3 which is still a bad limitation)

So yeah.. don't come try to restrict more the playing than we are, if anything else we should be granted more freedom to play the style we want the way we want, the key word is choice , the way it is you have the choice to player your own way, the others refuse to, so you simply aren't finding somebody who wants to play the same way as you, instead of forcing everybody onto something you want, why not bring up a suggestion that allows everybody to be happy playing their own way instead? Why are you trying to do to others what it feels they're doing to you?

Let's go over this issue, and respect everybody's playstyle and not try to cut it out from the game.

Ah, now we have a real discussion, this is good. Let me counter argument on a few things on your con list:

  1. Person can still use their good stats and hard work. They will obviously have the most tower and hero damage. He/she could have an easier time in their lane, or work together with all other players to secure a win by placing his / her best towers in other lanes, encourages corperation.
  2. True on a micro level, but in reality after the game ends you go back to tavern and pick a new hero anyway. Do you people really have that many commitment issues that you can't stick to one hero for 20 minutes?!
  3. One person with really good stats couldn't build it all. They would hit their own *generous* tower limit cap. They could however, still build some of the best towers on the map show casing all their hard work.
  4. This is true and a valid point. However, it is a tower defense game after all. Is it really so hard to lay a few towers down really fast and proceed to playing a dps focused hero? That being said, I am sure some creative solution could be put into place where players could forgo building at all. Have you played sanctum 2? It's an fps tower defense game. YOu can both build towers, and dps. You are good at both. It works much better imo. Unfortunately it lacks as interesting rpg elements as DD2.
  5. Playing co-op demotes teamplay? That statement contradicts itself. Obviously the automatch system would be tuned to match people with similar gear and level so the rest of the time wouldn't be completely useless. The gear item level already put in place does this. Silly argument.
  6. Yes you are right, but they could really expand each characters own skills and talent trees so there would still be interesting hard choices. Each hero could still feel unique.
  7. People are already doing this, to ridiculous levels. Every game I join there is some elitist asshat telling people what to build where, or asking for mana. At least with a defense unit limit per player, one person can't do it all, and will have to learn to be a decent human being and work together. Sounds like a win win to me. If you don't want to play with others, play solo where you can switch characters to your hearts content.
  8. See 7, really the same argument.
  9. Lack of choice per round.. not per map or level. I think you'll survive 20 minutes before you need to choose another hero to play.

Now on to your few notes:

  1. He worked hard for it, and can still having something to show for it by having the best towers / stats on the team. People will have to play off those strength. Do they cover one lane, or help everyone out? This actually adds another layer of strategy instead of give the best player the mana and afk while they build everything. Very boring mechanic.
  2. No bonuses for tower focused characters in dd2 like in dd1. Atleast, not to my knowledge (I could be wrong).
  3. Actually when 4 people don't have alternate heros to play, building goes pretty fast. Monk usually lightning auras every lane, hunter places gysers, apprentice / squire build towers in every lane. It goes really fast. I've had a lot of games like this playing with randoms. The game is pretty new, it takes a few weeks for things to settle and everyone figure things out. Once they do that, it goes much, much faster.
  4. Then i'd be leaving 50% of my games. I am sorry but I don't have time for that, and it adds a huge amount of downtime.
  5. It really does force people into playing multiple heroes if they want to stay competitive. And it might be soloable now, but what about when hard content starts to come out? I had to level every character in dd1 to stay viable through nightmare. It was a headace and nightmare. Build times took forever. It wasn't fun.

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I feel I like the idea of the deck, Because I don't want to type a story to the one huntress, mage, or squire why i need something on the end of my aura... or gyser in my aura. I remember when I used to think that it was an exploit in DD1, but now i understand that it impacts the flow of the game more positively. The between rounds are shorter because of the hero switching. Than being 5+ minutes long to get people attention. 

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ok, about restricting hero swapping: have fun with a team of just dps heros...

of course i wanna be able to change my heroes for the case i'm in such a group, i just switch to one of my builders and than back to the hero i want to lvl with...

i often get into a group where the people just run allover the place and have no clue what to do till i place a elec aura somewhere... so someone has to take the lead and thats even possible without communicating

about not allowing you to build: just get better stats so that there is a reason for you to build!
at least i wont let you build on my lane when your exact same tower makes half the dps than mine...

as for "towers getting worse" - its already that way in some cases (elec aura to be one of them) but if also my downscaled one is even better than that of someone else its sure i offer to replace it...

and yes - one who wants to build all 'cause he can build all - why not? if you so dramatically disappointment in being useless than just change to another group....

no one will ever be able to force you to stay in a group...

and if the builder really is better, the game will be done faster... maybe first wave will be longer but you save that time in the other waves... and if youre wise and see him put up auras just switch to your huntress and place traps... (dmg dosnt matter on them anyway...)

and with a decent setup no dps class should be needed

and for hybrid caraketers - just equip the right gear with tower and hero stats - sure you'll never be as good as one of the dps or tower ones but if you really wanna go hybrid just do it...

i think the main problem is, that you only got one hero you really enjoy playing but isn't that useful at the moment cause you may haven't fund decent gear jet... and while you don't have other heroes to swap to to compensate for maby a better monk in the current team you just wanna restrict other people to compensate for that... bet he will still be the better monk...

for the moment i allready find the 3hero deck really annoying, got 3 heroes to lvl 25 and now have to remove one to lvl the 4th hero to 25... wont be that much fun when the new classes come out...

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