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AussieMark

86% of steam users want gating removed

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Hi,


Based on the feedback from the early access and defence councillors I'd like to see less gating in DD2, ie: You can choose harder maps or a wider variety and upgrade towers etc.


Perhaps just list -recommended level so people know, but at least then they can join their friends and fail / go down in a blaze of glory. Just list recommended levels

It's no fun being separated from your friends or locked out of more challenging / fun maps.

I think it's been said well, although a little harshly its become a popular negative review on steam. I mean 86% of people agreed with this review! 86%

"910 of 1,064 people (86%) found this review helpful


Not Recommended

11.8 hrs last two weeks / 11.8 hrs on record

Posted: 6 Dec @ 7:19am 

Updated: 6 Dec @ 7:22am


EARLY ACCESS REVIEW

I loved Dungeon Defenders 1, I even loved the nightmare-gear gap that a lot of people struggled with. 

This is my opinion about DD2 on Day1/2.


DD2, out of the box and eventhough it still is in early access, is a heavily gated experience. It forces you through an abyssmal grind while isolating you from the rest of the player base the higher you go. Personal skill isn't rewarded, but how many times you attempted a mission. You can win a campaign map but it doesn't unlock the next one - something I have never seen before - it's behind a ridiculous mechanic where you have to grind previous maps over and over for XP until the next one unlocks even if you wouldn't have any problems winning the next ones. You can't even attempt harder maps or harder difficulties. I know a fair deal of grinding, but I don't understand why a game won't let you progress even if you conquered all the maps you've previously played. The whole war table thing doesn't make any sense and should be abolished because a system where players are put into tiers is dumb.


A lot of my fun in DD1 was figuring out placements, but it seems it has been completely thrown out of the window here.

If you're too strong, the game just downscales all of your stats/towers and always attempts to put you on the verge of barely winning. It's good if you want that sort of challenge, but the game also forces you through this item progression grind. In DD1 you could perfectly well do maps below Nightmare if you knew how to play. You would also believe that finishing on normal would unlock harder difficulties for the map - it doesn't, you have to accumulate a ton of XP until the game decides you're up for 'hard' mode on specific maps. It doesn't make any sense, considering that the game limits your access of maps depending on your level. Most of the times you will not be able to even replay levels in the next tier. So the progression system actually regresses the options you should have available. WHY?


I think this is all an effort to stop people from twinking and powerleveling, because otherwise selling gold or other services isn't going to be profitable in the future if it wasn't obstructed. Which is probably going to be a big deal because even upgrading your gear requires a lot of gold to a point where you waste more gold on a level 1 upgrade than you possibly get from finishing a map. That's completely bonkers. Though there are a few silver linings.


The PC version is well done, as opposed to DD1 which struggled with a lot of port problems. Eventhough there are a lot of interface options, it's still lacking a way to disable ally health and enable that tower health is always being shown or at least if it's on low health. I like the concept of the chests at the end and that you don't have to complete all waves to still get a reward. Actually between finishing or failing a map there is very little incentive, aside from the possible higher rarity loot at the end and slightly more xp depending on the wave you were. All that matters in the end is that you've attempted it and you get your fair share of a reward. It turns everyone into a winner, behind a heavily grind/gated based mechanic. 



I can't recommend this to anyone who loved DD1, as it is right now. Wait for it to come out in 1-2 years and hope that they didn't turn this into a game on-par with a mindless cow clicker and with more substance instead. Also be aware that this game can only be played if you are online, it's basically a mmo.

Source:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/236110/reviews/


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I see your point but I disagree heavily with your "86% of Steam users" claim. 86% found the post helpful does not mean 86% of the users agree with that one argument. If you can show that there is some evidence of this game being complete or even in a state to be directly compared to the completed DD1 then you have a valid complaint.

Be constructive and help them to develop the game, make suggestions respectfully and give detailed suggestions. I am no coder/programmer but I have thrown $1000's of dollars at Early Access and Kickstarter titles in an attempt to support developers that make games i want to play and sadly only about 1/2 of the games were what I was hoping for, at least DD2 is playable and is making steps in the right direction.

Personally I think Steam should direct users to the developers website for feedback on Early Access games instead of creating a forum for people to comment on an incomplete game.

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I think gating is a little dumb, at least on the grounds that a friend of mine was opposed to making a new character because he has to sit around in boring 1-3 and 3-5 zones.  I mean honestly, 1-3's starter map on normal is a snore fest.  He literally almost passed out it was so tame.

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haha yeah considering its actually their first exposure to the game. We need to give them a bit of fun / challenge and action quickly before we lose them :p. Classic business strategy..


[[66696,users]] quote:

I think gating is a little dumb, at least on the grounds that a friend of mine was opposed to making a new character because he has to sit around in boring 1-3 and 3-5 zones.  I mean honestly, 1-3's starter map on normal is a snore fest.  He literally almost passed out it was so tame.


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Fair point :)

But personally i wouldnt mind levelling taking longer if I had access to everything at a lower level. I just want to get to the higher lvl's quicker so I can actually build my towers!

[[11584,users]] quote:

I think the gating is to prevent players from being power lvled.


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Lvl 1-5 takes 2 maps and though I can understand that maybe not being as fun for when you want to level up a new character, there is already a topic about having XP distributed across the entire hero deck, so you might want to look into that. I'll agree on the tower progression however, as I found it takes a bit too long to unlock that 4th tower for my taste. 

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[[69010,users]] quote:

Gating is a business strategy to include utility IAP like xp packs. It hinders the player experience for a little more money.

We don't plan on selling XP packs. We're actively working to reduce the grind and the gating. You can hear more about it in our Influence Reports.

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I personally don't mind the grind, but I wish that everything I previously unlocked would be available to me. I love to see how strong I am in the first level on easy, etc. without being reduced to level 1-3.

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On the one hand, I've had problems with the level gating as-it-is, but on the other I think that's an issue related to different factors.

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[[69010,users]] quote:

Gating is a business strategy to include utility IAP like xp packs. It hinders the player experience for a little more money.

Exactly.

Why make a great game when you can make a lot of money instead?

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[[68753,users]] quote:


Belgarionriva quote:

Gating is a business strategy to include utility IAP like xp packs. It hinders the player experience for a little more money.

Exactly.

Why make a great game when you can make a lot of money instead?

how about you give some more points than money. You could say that they want to introduce people to waves since that is basically what lvl 1-3 does and 3-5 further expands upon that(Check that slow wave spawns for a reason).

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[[30193,users]] quote:


emtwo quote:


Belgarionriva quote:

Gating is a business strategy to include utility IAP like xp packs. It hinders the player experience for a little more money.

Exactly.

Why make a great game when you can make a lot of money instead?

how about you give some more points than money. You could say that they want to introduce people to waves since that is basically what lvl 1-3 does and 3-5 further expands upon that(Check that slow wave spawns for a reason).


The thing is: level 3-5 gate blocks certain past levels. There is logic in progressive unlocking, but there is none to locking past levels (from a gameplay standpoint), so I was trying to see some ulterior motive.

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i do understand the need for gating, to stop power leveling but i dislike that maps get locked on certain lvl ranges, since theres certain mapes i love to play but cant unless i grind to lvl up to a new lvl range or go down. but with exp gain im thinking or dead island where the mobs where tuned to the lvl of your character, but instead of tweaking the whole thing only change the exp/gold gain. So if a lvl 2 wants to join some lvl 23 friends on the hardest map/difficulty they can, but even if the mob has 10k hp for the lvl 23 its going to be the same for the lvl 2 but the exp/gold u gain from it wont be any different from the lvl 2 mobs  you should be fighting for your lvl. so if someone wants to spend 3hrs of constant basic atks to kill 1 mob for a challenge they can go for it but the rewards wont be any better until their lvl is

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[[69010,users]] quote:


todaz quote:


emtwo quote:


Belgarionriva quote:

Gating is a business strategy to include utility IAP like xp packs. It hinders the player experience for a little more money.

Exactly.

Why make a great game when you can make a lot of money instead?

how about you give some more points than money. You could say that they want to introduce people to waves since that is basically what lvl 1-3 does and 3-5 further expands upon that(Check that slow wave spawns for a reason).


The thing is: level 3-5 gate blocks certain past levels. There is logic in progressive unlocking, but there is none to locking past levels (from a gameplay standpoint), so I was trying to see some ulterior motive.

Some of the maps are reworked for a new challenge at higher levels. For example the starter map for 1-3 can be replayed at the 5-10 level range but it is harder. While I think they can do a better job identifying the two different maps the logic was simply so that you stayed in your level range since there were two copies of the same map with different monsters on it.

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iamisom quote:


Belgarionriva quote:

Gating is a business strategy to include utility IAP like xp packs. It hinders the player experience for a little more money.

We don't plan on selling XP packs. We're actively working to reduce the grind and the gating. You can hear more about it in our Influence Reports.

Forgive me, but aren't you just playing semantics here?  You say you don't plan on selling XP packs, but at end-match screen there is clearly experience reserved for "XP Boosters."

Do you plan on selling XP Boosters for RL$, and if so, how is that different than selling XP packs?

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...if XP boosters are only attainable with in-game currency and in-game currency cannot be purchased for USD...

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Draco18s quote:

...if XP boosters are only attainable with in-game currency and in-game currency cannot be purchased for USD...

That's a couple big "ifs."

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[[68753,users]] quote:
Draco18s quote:

...if XP boosters are only attainable with in-game currency and in-game currency cannot be purchased for USD...

That's a couple big "ifs."

In-game currency purchasable for USD would break the "no mechanical benefits" rule.
XP boosters for USD would break the "no mechanical benefits" rule.

So no, not really.

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[[16273,users]] quote:
emtwo quote:
Draco18s quote:

...if XP boosters are only attainable with in-game currency and in-game currency cannot be purchased for USD...

That's a couple big "ifs."

In-game currency purchasable for USD would break the "no mechanical benefits" rule.
XP boosters for USD would break the "no mechanical benefits" rule.

So no, not really.

What about xp boosters for x billion gold.

x billion gold for y usd.


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