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And we didn't see post insane yet, what if people will kick you if you don't have every char at lvl 70 with a godly gears on everyone ?
People will do this anyways and it's irrelevant to any conversation. If they want to kick you, it's their right, you're connecting to their computer and they can deny you access if they want to for any reason.

In Team Fortress 2, Valve gave out a hat to people who did not use an external third party tool to acquire items. Server administrators were banning anyone who dared to wear that hat to show that "they did not cheat". Something to think about, if you think being kicked from a room for not having high stats is bad. ;)

Everything in this post cries out *elitist*. Yeah, grats, you can do it on hard. Yeah, grats, you have 3 friends. My friend is on vacation. Good for you! I am so proud!

I just tried Hard Glitterheim, can't do it anymore without being on my huntress running around repairing. So much for having a 70 monk.
Eh? I soloed Spooktacular on Hard. I've also soloed Glitterhelm on Hard with nothing but a tower spec Huntress. The trick is to use buildings that can't be destroyed within ten seconds - in other words, traps and auras. This is common sense. If your buildings are getting destroyed by enemies and you can't keep up repairs all around the map by yourself before they go down, then use buildings that cannot get destroyed.

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I agree

I want to play a spec tower for all the waves but i can't because if we don't change to spec dps Huntress we're dead
That's really lame.
And we didn't see post insane yet, what if people will kick you if you don't have every char at lvl 70 with a godly gears on everyone ?


Then host your own game.

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I agree

I want to play a spec tower for all the waves but i can't because if we don't change to spec dps Huntress we're dead
That's really lame.
And we didn't see post insane yet, what if people will kick you if you don't have every char at lvl 70 with a godly gears on everyone ?
You're joking right? I haven't needed hero DPS on any maps without bosses.

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I agree

I want to play a spec tower for all the waves but i can't because if we don't change to spec dps Huntress we're dead
That's really lame.
And we didn't see post insane yet, what if people will kick you if you don't have every char at lvl 70 with a godly gears on everyone ?


what are dps heros gonna be good for then?

no ones gonna run around frantically killing stuff it towers can do the same job.

brb going to complain to blizzard i cant kill ragnaros by myself or even with a full group of tank pallys.

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I want to play a spec tower for all the waves but i can't because if we don't change to spec dps Huntress we're dead

Balanced teams people! The classes were designed to complement each other, not to have one class dominate everything. It was also designed to be a team based game! Expecting to solo everything all the time is like buying L4D and expecting a fulfilling singleplayer experience. Some games are just made to be played with other people, it's not difficult to figure out. Like the TPS Tower Defense concept but want to solo? Orcs Must Die is probably what you want. Like to socialize and work together with friends or meet new people? Dungeon Defenders is a damn good game for it.

TL;DR - You can play tower spec if you want to, they have their place in a proper team setup.

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People will do this anyways and it's irrelevant to any conversation. If they want to kick you, it's their right, you're connecting to their computer and they can deny you access if they want to for any reason.

In Team Fortress 2, Valve gave out a hat to people who did not use an external third party tool to acquire items. Server administrators were banning anyone who dared to wear that hat to show that "they did not cheat". Something to think about, if you think being kicked from a room for not having high stats is bad. ;)

Eh? I soloed Spooktacular on Hard. I've also soloed Glitterhelm on Hard with nothing but a tower spec Huntress. The trick is to use buildings that can't be destroyed within ten seconds - in other words, traps and auras. This is common sense. If your buildings are getting destroyed by enemies and you can't keep up repairs all around the map by yourself before they go down, then use buildings that cannot get destroyed.


So in other words, anyone who doesn't have a trap huntress or an aura monk is COMPLETELY SCREWED in this patch. I think you are terrible at arguing, because you are proving our points.

Edit 1: P.S. I am leveling a monk as we discuss.
Edit 2: If this is a strictly multiplayer game, take out single player as an option. If anything, those who did all the insane stuff when squires were kings and have insane gear are going to defend these changes since they can now still solo stuff, but everyone else is forced to find a game where one of those people is in... otherwise, it's just a little too frustrating. You can't solo anything to get gear anymore, you join games and people kick you because your gear sucks, and then you quit the game and never buy DLC.
Edit 3: I LIKE the increased difficulty in theory, but when I was already struggling to do rewarding things on insane, I personally don't see why it was necessary. I wasn't even hit as bad as everyone else, I have 3 70s... they just have terrible gear because I am the unluckiest person ever.

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So in other words, anyone who doesn't have a trap huntress or an aura monk is COMPLETELY SCREWED in this patch. I think you are terrible at arguing, because you are proving our points.

Edit 1: P.S. I am leveling a monk as we discuss.
Edit 2: If this is a strictly multiplayer game, take out single player as an option. If anything, those who did all the insane stuff when squires were kings and have insane gear are going to defend these changes since they can now still solo stuff, but everyone else is forced to find a game where one of those people is in... otherwise, it's just a little too frustrating. You can't solo anything to get gear anymore, you join games and people kick you because your gear sucks, and then you quit the game and never buy DLC.



Team game, play with other people, complement them.

If you want to solo, then yes, level up your own team of toons and use all the towers available.

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I mean I have been soloing that map on hard all day. Not even having to use my hunter with a fully upped blasti/crystal tracker. I can sit on my undergeared monk or my apprentice and just repair things and beat the map. Its all about tower placement. I have not used a single huntress trap. Using the electric aura/one fireball turret combo.

I am sure I could do it with squire turrets and snare auras. This game is really about placement, experiment with it. Losing isn't bad.

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So in other words, anyone who doesn't have a trap huntress or an aura monk is COMPLETELY SCREWED in this patch. I think you are terrible at arguing, because you are proving our points.
Whose points? The OP is complaining that Spooktacular is so impossible because he can't possibly kill a lightning-immune kobold before he blows up all of the defenses ;)

Kobolds exist for a reason, and that reason is to decimate Squire and Apprentice defenses. If you are having a problem with them, then, yes, you might have to use another class that counters them better.

Edit 2: If this is a strictly multiplayer game, take out single player as an option. If anything, those who did all the insane stuff when squires were kings and have insane gear are going to defend these changes since they can now still solo stuff, but everyone else is forced to find a game where one of those people is in...
Squire was the third character I even made, after Huntress and Monk got to 70, so it's not like I used Squire buildings to powerlevel my characters or acquire phat lewt.

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Team game, play with other people, complement them.

If you want to solo, then yes, level up your own team of toons and use all the towers available.

Exactly. The problem is not being able to do very much other than hard ramparts for ~12 hours while you level up your other heroes. Not very entertaining... that and there still needs to be a dedicated "swap hero" button. I can't see soloing insane anything anymore because you can't hit all the points as all 3 classes that fast.

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Exactly. The problem is not being able to do very much other than hard ramparts for ~12 hours while you level up your other heroes. Not very entertaining... that and there still needs to be a dedicated "swap hero" button. I can't see soloing insane anything anymore because you can't hit all the points as all 3 classes that fast.
You could go through the campaign again with your new characters, just like you did on the first one! Just because you choose to repetitively farm the same map over and over and over doesn't mean it's the only way :p

I agree on the swap hero button though.

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Keep in mind that they not only substantially buffed apprentice but they also buffed monk and increased squire tower health. You seem to ignore that fact in the OP.

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You could go through the campaign again with your new characters, just like you did on the first one! Just because you choose to repetitively farm the same map over and over and over doesn't mean it's the only way :p

I agree on the swap hero button though.

So... the problem is then having to spend 20 hours a character? I don't mean to insult but a funny one just came to mind... I guess those halloween zombies got all the brains, huh. I'm sorry.

Edit: Going back in with my 44 monk with auras.

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Edit: Going back in with my 44 monk with auras.

Aaaand easy. Very easy. I probably could have done without every repairing auras with how long they last now. I even accidentally fell off because I play windowed mode and clicked off the screen. All hail the new overlords, monks.
Edit: Didn't even think about placement either. Just bouncers, fireball, ensnares and lightnings all over the place. Monk has like 60 tower attack.

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"So in other words, anyone who doesn't have a trap huntress or an aura monk is COMPLETELY SCREWED in this patch. I think you are terrible at arguing, because you are proving our points."

this... a million times this. Not everyone has had the time to level and gear 4 or more characters to max stats. so should all those people not be allowed to play the game on half the difficulties?

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Since this is my thread, I'd like for all posts from now on to consider this question: what is the point of having four separate classes if we're forced to jump between them?

Forcing us to use different classes boils down to a simple "speed bump." You plant defenses, to go the forge, swap, plant defenses, go to the forge, swap, etc. You're basically one class and there's no reason to keep separate track of levels for four different classes. This isn't an rpg, it's a tower defense game that wants to be an rpg while refusing to let anyone actually play like an rpg.

I want to play the game as an rpg. I want to play ONE class. I want EACH CLASS to be able to solo. Otherwise, there's no reason to have distinct classes whatsoever.

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this... a million times this. Not everyone has had the time to level and gear 4 or more characters to max stats. so should all those people not be allowed to play the game on half the difficulties?
That's like complaining about not being able to beat an RPG's secret boss because he uses high-damaging AoE attacks and you haven't even levelled up high enough to learn Multi-Heal yet, how dare he use strong attacks, I should be able to beat him even at level 1!

In other words: yep! If you could do all the content with one character, we would call that character overpowered, and then they'd have to get nerfed to fall in line with the characters that can't do all the content by themselves. Oh, wait.

...and nobody said "four or more". I clearly said that I soloed it with a Monk/Huntress combo.

I want to play the game as an rpg. I want to play ONE class. I want EACH CLASS to be able to solo. Otherwise, there's no reason to have distinct classes whatsoever.
Guys why can't my all-berserker team kill this secret boss with 8,000,000 hp that spams high-damaging aoe attacks, he kills me too quickly for me to take out 8 million health :(

I'm playing Team Fortress 2 and I can't take out a Sniper across the map in a hallway that I need to go through as a Heavy! WTF! Buff Heavy!

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I want to play the game as an rpg. I want to play ONE class. I want EACH CLASS to be able to solo. Otherwise, there's no reason to have distinct classes whatsoever.


See I disagree. I like the multi-class thing, kind of like the video game Trine, but the problem is you have to level them all up separately... if you're expected to now use all 4 types of towers, leveling 4 times over is nothing but artificially increasing the lifespan of the game. It'll hurt Trendy more than anything, since people get bored and quit. I've put almost 100 hours into DD, including some over-night power levels (really not the best way, but hey what else was I doing) and still don't have 4 70s. Yeah, I could have had them, but I prefer trying to do the hard stuff than overleveling/overgrinding/cheating/whatever and trivializing it. Trying to solo all the content on my pre-7.0.6 apprentice sure was a challenge!

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Since this is my thread, I'd like for all posts from now on to consider this question: what is the point of having four separate classes if we're forced to jump between them?

Forcing us to use different classes boils down to a simple "speed bump." You plant defenses, to go the forge, swap, plant defenses, go to the forge, swap, etc. You're basically one class and there's no reason to keep separate track of levels for four different classes. This isn't an rpg, it's a tower defense game that wants to be an rpg while refusing to let anyone actually play like an rpg.

I want to play the game as an rpg. I want to play ONE class. I want EACH CLASS to be able to solo. Otherwise, there's no reason to have distinct classes whatsoever.


You aren't forced to jump between them, you could also join a multiplayer match with other classes.

If you really want to be meta about it, you could consider that you're leveling your "account" with each separate class just being "skills". Just because this is a tower/rpg hybrid doesn't mean that the game has to mesh perfectly into the rpg mold.

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Pro tip - Ensnare Aura + Lightning Aura - Fire trap, Gas trap every choke point. A few spike traps past the chokes for any stubborn ogre.

Kobolds don't do jack when theres nothing to run into.

Congratz you just solo'd hard mode, have a costume.

Squire towers are the biggest waste of DU this game has now, if you need walls use a 1 DU app wall.

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Exactly. The problem is not being able to do very much other than hard ramparts for ~12 hours while you level up your other heroes. Not very entertaining... that and there still needs to be a dedicated "swap hero" button. I can't see soloing insane anything anymore because you can't hit all the points as all 3 classes that fast.


this this this. my thoughts exactly. OK we get it, this is a coop focused game. But solo play is a total pain in the ***, they might as well remove it (this is for people who play "casually"...hell I've played for 40 hours and still am nowhere near max level on any class). It's better now that there's a drop mana button but it's still run around place three towers. Run back to forge. Run back out place three more towers. Run back to forge. Run back out place three more towers and start wave. It's just tedious. Then they roll out a huge patch like 7.0 which completely guts any metagame that had developed. I made a huntress originally just because, then rolled a squire because I heard they were good for solo play (followed by forums shouting "nerf squire, he's so op!"). Now this patch comes out and people just want to complain about a different class ("nerf monk forums! you suck if you think the game is hard, just make a monk newb").

Listen guys. Not everyone marathoned the game and maxed out each class in three days. The attitude of 4 level 70 tricked out accounts is "deal with it" (or hell, just did it with 2 and powerleveled the others in 3 hours). But patches like the recent one SUCK for people who play this game casually because they completely change how you have to play the game. A class you've been working on, nope that doesn't work anymore. I've grown pretty accustomed to elitism in forums for other games I play like SC2 or dota, but some of the posters I've seen around here really bother me.

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A class you've been working on, nope that doesn't work anymore.
Yes, this is what happens when you decide to play a PC game, it's called balance. The dominant strategy gets toned down so it no longer wrecks things, and surprise surprise, people who were absolutely reliant on those really strong strategies can no longer do anything because instead of Adapting they just throw a fit and say it's impossible. If you ask what class to make (or read around) and 9/10 people say "Make a Squire! They're really strong! They can do everything!", you really should not be surprised when it doesn't work forever.

If the Squire was not overpowered to begin with, and every single class was perfectly balanced in every possible way, those casual players would still have had to do exactly what they're supposed to do now: find other people to play with, or level other classes as well.

Time management is part of Insane. If you cannot set up a full defense on the first wave because you don't have enough time, then figure out how to set up a weaker defense that can still kill a whole 50 enemies, and then you'll have another minute to set up even more defenses! And you'll have more mana, too!

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It's a shame the game requires you to have all the classes at level 70 with good equipment now in order to do maps which help you level and get you equipment.
I am not surprised those who have played crazy amounts are surprised people are having difficulties.

I just tried spook on hard, and I have everything but monk leveled up (with bad gear), and by wave 9, buildings die. Wave 10 is completely impossible, I don't even get half way through before I'm down to ~60 DU with all the buildings they destroy.

YES, I use every kind of building. I have lightning towers set up to stun/trigger kobolds away from my defenses. I have bouncers set up at all the main chokepoints for regular enemies. I have harpoons where there is a good straight shot, fireball towers everywhere else. I have bouncers and MMs set up to take care of the air.
YES, I am using my 70 hero huntress with a fully upgraded gun. I can still only be in one place at a time.
YES, I am upgrading and healing towers as they get low. All my characters have maxed out hero casting speed, but that barely matters.
NO, I don't think I'll be able to do it without leveling my monk for ensnare auras... or at least another trap huntress... Eh, I guess I'm ok with it. I am kind of bored of leveling...

Am I ok with it? Maybe, I haven't played much since 7.06 hit, and it is understandable that some harder maps might be actually "hard" on hard. I don't think I'll be able to solo insane maps anymore.

Edit: What makes me the angriest, really, is how long it takes to start a map. There now needs to be a "switch hero" button you can press, at least out of combat.


best setup for hard halloween: ensanre lightning aura (u dont even need a 70 monk, just buffed attack damage and lifespan, 2 mm 1 fb per choke, rest on blockades. works wonders. Kobolds wont ever get close to your defenses, and Huntress to dps the ogres and thin out defenses overall.

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I want to play the game as an rpg. I want to play ONE class. I want EACH CLASS to be able to solo. Otherwise, there's no reason to have distinct classes whatsoever.


I don't understand this.

This is a Co-op game.

It is designed for co-op.

Not single player.


It doesn't matter if you want it to be a single player game. It's a co-op.

The point of having different classes is so that you can choose what class you want to play, with the intention of playing in a team with other people, not by yourself.

You should be happy that you *can* solo, to be honest.

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