Goodby Tower Defense, Hello FPS.

It seems to me that the latest squire nerf, even with the slight un-nerf has drastically changed the style of the game.

By removing the ONLY towers that can clear out large numbers of monsters and hit ogers hard enough to kill them, and NOT replacing them with buffed towers by other classes, the designers have left us with only one choice, and thats using DPS characters to fill the slot.

Take Glitterhelm for example. I played several games last night and on hard there is NO setup that can survive without FOUR high dps huntresses spending the entire time shooting mages and ogres and even then having to replace defenses that went down between levels.

Now, pre-nerf I used to do games like this on purpose. It is fun to mow down everything in sight. But now I am forced to do this on every level. The game has taken away the play style I prefer, and has made the game significantly less fun.

It also means that I'm never doing public matches any more. Because now you need all four players to do their jobs perfectly. You can't carry a less skilled player, or a help teach new players how to play the game.

It's also (as mentioned in other posts) made many insane maps basically impossible except with (and maybe even) with four dps spected huntresses with high level Van weapons. You can't switch to other classes to build towers in the 90 seconds you have and switch back. Especially on large maps.

I have a serious question here. Does Trendy feel this is how the game was meant to be played? A shoot-em-up with squire blockades to help out and maybe another few towers thrown in to catch random stragglers? Because that's the only way to play higher levels anymore, and to me, that's just not fun.

If the new squire towers are here to stay, mage towers need serious buffs. Monk auras need to have even more lifetime added and huntress traps need more charges and faster repairing. And all classes need serious dps upgrades.

Yes, people complained that levels were being filled with squire towers, but now it's "4 huntress only!" tavern naming time. The problem was not squires were too powerful, but other towers were not useful. If people didn't like squire, they were free not to use it. Not an option if you dont want to spend two hours button mashing now.

Anyway, thats my view of the recent changes.

No setup that can defend against glitterhelm hard?
Sorry to rain on your bad mood but that guide that's going around this forum for doing it afk with a squire? Remove a single damage tower and replace it with a str reduction aura. Ta da, you can once again do the map afk.

everyone Daish plays with has quit because of this patch we all enjoyed the tower playstyle

less then 0.2% of the player base has compleated insane achivements in steam
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/DungeonDefenders/achievements/

there was no reason to nerf squire at all

Daish went from trying to get other people to play to telling people how bad this game is

everyone Daish plays with has quit because of this patch we all enjoyed the tower playstyle

less then 0.2% of the player base has compleated insane achivements in steam
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/DungeonDefenders/achievements/

there was no reason to nerf squire at all

Daish went from trying to get other people to play to telling people how bad this game is

Bye. Games change. Get over it.

even with the slight un-nerf

TL;DR

I don't think you have played the version with the "slight un-nerf" .. so I didn't bother reading the rest.

all these people thinking this is a squire only game should get over themselves LOL, guys they nerfed squire gg games pointless now.
jk try a new strategy maybe (hint:involving another class)

yeah I agree, simply need to make every other class more useful so you have options instead of only one class carrying the team and getting nerfed leaving no one to build. It's more about delaying enemies while your dps heroes clean up post patch as nothing does good damage anymore.

By removing the ONLY towers that can clear out large numbers of monsters and hit ogers hard enough to kill them

for some reason your point is invalid... im sure the reason ogres are there is so that you must assist your towers to take them down otherwise they will walk through them....................................

its kinda part of the game.. u still need towers

+ they will patch it soon, again..

No setup that can defend against glitterhelm hard?
Sorry to rain on your bad mood but that guide that's going around this forum for doing it afk with a squire? Remove a single damage tower and replace it with a str reduction aura. Ta da, you can once again do the map afk.

I saw the guide, it was very similar to what I had been doing. Not surprising as most solutions tend to converge on games like this.

Anyway... I'll try it with auras and see what happens.

p.s. i like the fact insanes are harder now, because before insane was just what you did when you hit 70. maybe you have to have optimized gear and actual strategies now rather than just place a bowling ball turret and game over. if you want a super easy game while destroying end game content go play pokemon or something -.-
but some people want a challenge, and no it's not just nerfing it to oblivion that makes it challenging, but before this game was just a 1-class game, let's be quite honest.

If stuff gets nerfed by 30% it's an insanely rediculious move. Stuff gets buffed by 30% and it's not enough.

I'm.. confused.

Also - I changed my Glitter Hard farm setup. I now use about 40% mage towers, 25% huntress traps and rest is only bouncers als blockers + harpoons on certain spots. Especially solo modes (not survival), you can easily remove that harpoon for anti-air and place 2 MagicMissile towers. They'll do the job even better.

However, maybe with the buff squire towers will get (did I just type that e_e) the ratio might swap abit more to squire, bit less from mage and less from huntress. But I have all classes in my setup. No monk auras though, even though that's my main <3. Maybe I can chew off a inferno trap for a Lightning Aura, hmm..

TL;DR

I don't think you have played the version with the "slight un-nerf" .. so I didn't bother reading the rest.

"I stopped reading when you said X" seems to be a popular meme. Ugh.

No, I have not played it but I have a good idea of how it will go. I know the numbers. My un-upgraded squire ballista did 3100 damage every 0.58 seconds which comes out to 5600 dps. My nerfed tower does 1500 damage every 0.77 seconds for 2000 dps PLUS limits on how many mobs it can hit. A 30% increase to that is still a HUGE reduction, and is not going to make much of a difference.

we get that it's a huge reduction, that's the point. argue why it's incorrect to do so.

"I stopped reading when you said X" seems to be a popular meme. Ugh.

No, I have not played it but I have a good idea of how it will go. I know the numbers. My un-upgraded squire ballista did 3100 damage every 0.58 seconds which comes out to 5600 dps. My nerfed tower does 1500 damage every 0.77 seconds for 2000 dps PLUS limits on how many mobs it can hit. A 30% increase to that is still a HUGE reduction, and is not going to make much of a difference.

I stopped reading because you offered an opinion that didn't make sense. I chose to not waste time reading more of the same.

If you "know the numbers" why did you bother playing the game after the 7.06 patch notes were revealed yesterday morning? Wasn't it obvious to you that you wouldn't enjoy the game any more?

for some reason your point is invalid... im sure the reason ogres are there is so that you must assist your towers to take them down otherwise they will walk through them....................................

its kinda part of the game.. u still need towers

+ they will patch it soon, again..

True, and that was fun, running around repairing defenses, rushing to stop the ogers from killing everything. If two came out on opposite ends of the map the defenses could deal with them long enough to get to them. Now... even one can smash through stuff before I can reach it. Not fun.

But yes, I mispoke there. I never expected ogers to be something towers dealt with easily.

obviously you didn't stop reading..

Now... even one can smash through stuff before I can reach it. Not fun.

But yes, I mispoke there. I never expected ogers to be something towers dealt with easily.

maybe try fully upping your squires equipment and getting a better strategy, and planning out ahead of time for a hunt or something to kite the ogre. insanes are not meant to be easy, they are meant to be insane. and by that, i would hope you can't do them with 2 mil dropped into just your weapon and be like okay end game content here i come!

I will say that Trendy is going pretty happy with nerfing and un-nerfing. This causes quite a lot of WTF? when I read through the forums. Personally, my main was a Tower Squire and I had started a Huntress alternate... she became my main class because her DPS was simply too much to ignore on Insane maps. To me, this presents a very clear problem. I love playing Squire and strategizing tower placements and types, however, after a couple of waves, it's all about my Huntress. WHY?! Give me incentive to stick out the whole map with Squire.

Glitterhelm hard, at each choke point put the following:

1 Lightning Aura (placed so mobs have to walk through it all, or close to all)
1 Ensnare Aura (place to overlap the lightning aura while still touching the front edge of your wall)
1 Strength Drain Aura (same place as Ensnare)
1 Fireball Tower
~3 Magic Missile Towers
2-3 Barriers.

For the Wyverns place 2 Magic Missile Towers just behind each crystal (3 is better in the south).

Profit.

Not it's not as effective as the bouncer + harpoon + -Str + Ensnare method, but it gets the job done well enough. Just make sure your MMs have enough range to get mages.

p.s. i like the fact insanes are harder now, because before insane was just what you did when you hit 70. maybe you have to have optimized gear and actual strategies now rather than just place a bowling ball turret and game over. if you want a super easy game while destroying end game content go play pokemon or something -.-
but some people want a challenge, and no it's not just nerfing it to oblivion that makes it challenging, but before this game was just a 1-class game, let's be quite honest.

I resent that, pokemon is a significantly deeper game than people give it credit for.

I resent that, pokemon is a significantly deeper game than people give it credit for.

okay i'll agree, but you get the message.

I stopped reading because you offered an opinion that didn't make sense. I chose to not waste time reading more of the same.

If you "know the numbers" why did you bother playing the game after the 7.06 patch notes were revealed yesterday morning? Wasn't it obvious to you that you wouldn't enjoy the game any more?

Seriously? Because for 7.06 they said they were nerfing it but they didn't say HOW much. I had to load up the game to check the new numbers, which in my opinion was way way too low. A 75% nerf is huge and completely changes the tone of the game.

In the next patch they are saying exactly what they are doing, a 30% increase. Going from 5600 dps to 2000 dps then back up to 2600 dps with the 30% buff isn't much. Still way more than half.

What part of that doesn't make sense?

Seriously? Because for 7.06 they said they were nerfing it but they didn't say HOW much. I had to load up the game to check the new numbers, which in my opinion was way way too low. A 75% nerf is huge and completely changes the tone of the game.

In the next patch they are saying exactly what they are doing, a 30% increase. Going from 5600 dps to 2000 dps then back up to 2600 dps with the 30% buff isn't much. Still way more than half.

What part of that doesn't make sense?

as i said before, we know it changes the tone of the game.
we know, we know, we know.
nobody is arguing that, because we know.
squire needed nerf to let other classes shine a little brighter, everyone on the forums was saying this.
now they're doing it, and squires are getting their feelings hurt.
once again, we know this will change the game.
argue why that's a bad thing and we'll constructively discuss that.

maybe try fully upping your squires equipment and getting a better strategy, and planning out ahead of time for a hunt or something to kite the ogre. insanes are not meant to be easy, they are meant to be insane. and by that, i would hope you can't do them with 2 mil dropped into just your weapon and be like okay end game content here i come!

I'm not talking about insane. I am talking about hard. We had four huntresses with 20k to 30k dps weapons and we spammed the spawn points and STILL nearly lost.

I love TD games BECAUSE of strategy. I love figuring out optimal solutions, finding ways to mix and match towers and weapons and strategies. But removing the heavy hitting towers means the game is limiting me to just spamming bullets.

Holding down fire for 10 minutes with some uber-huntress-gun is not a strategy.

Glitterhelm hard, at each choke point put the following:

1 Lightning Aura (placed so mobs have to walk through it all, or close to all)
1 Ensnare Aura (place to overlap the lightning aura while still touching the front edge of your wall)
1 Strength Drain Aura (same place as Ensnare)
1 Fireball Tower
~3 Magic Missile Towers
2-3 Barriers.

For the Wyverns place 2 Magic Missile Towers just behind each crystal (3 is better in the south).

Profit.

Not it's not as effective as the bouncer + harpoon + -Str + Ensnare method, but it gets the job done well enough. Just make sure your MMs have enough range to get mages.

I can still solo Hard Glitterhelm with a 60 tower squire and a 35 tower monk.

Far South crystal is 1 bouncer + strength drain + lightning aura. Backed up by bowler + harpoon. Crystal has 3 harpoons covering.
Far north is 2 bouncers + strength drain + lightning aura with a bowler + harpoon. Crystal has 2 harpoons.
Far east is 1 bouncer + lightning aura + ensnare aura with 2 bowlers behind.
1 spiked barricade to cover east exit from spawn east of center crystal. 2 bouncers + 2 harpoons + lightning + ensnare covering west exit of east spawn near center crystal.
2 bowlers + 2 bouncers + lightning + ensnare covering west side of center crystal.

That's it. Repair/upgrade stuff as needed but auras do last the entire round on solo for me.