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Councillors! What would you be willing to pay for?


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I wish all polls created weren't anonymous. It should show peoples names by default instead having to check the option. I check the option to make them public when I do a poll. /fail lummy


Is there a problem with keeping anonymity? I personally am a fan of Limited Edition items being present in the cash shop. I didn't want anyone to get flamed for voting on a poll that Trendy may or may not look at.

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Know what I'd be willing to pay for? DD2. Price it at 20$ or something. Are you guys hurting for money to the point where a cash shop is a thing you need to consider? Throw a subscription on DD2. I'd still buy it. And I'd bet a lot of other people would too, in both situations.

What I really don't like, is these cash shop threads that are designed to promote a payment model who's only purpose is to milk the customer for all they have, rather than to be a fair payment model. Would I pay for some of the things posted in the poll? Only those that don't affect gameplay, and those that I felt were worth my money. I see that some people have voted for non-costmetics, and that just isn't cool. If you buy ANYTHING gameplay affecting, you have an unfair advantage over everyone who can't or won't buy that thing. Should you have that? NO. All these P2W threads are really annoying, because they do not actually help DD2. If you really want to discuss viability in cash shops, please, go to EA forums. They seem to be pretty friendly to the P2W/Cash shop thing, lets not bring this in to DD2.

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I've played a lot of LoL and you cannot compare a game of that type to a "RTS-RPG" game.


Lol im not comparing the gameplay, im comparing the business models and they ARE similar
champs/heros
skins/costumes

seriously? you best be blind if you dont see that. The games themselves dont matter if no one wants to play them because the companies are money grabby or low budget.

And im sick of people saying "you cant compare 2 different game genres business models". You really can, the business models are about the product. The products are similar in the items you are purchasing. That would be like saying "Well mcdonalds sells coke, pizza places shouldn't sell coke because they are not the same type of restaurant." No, if selling coke is working for one restaurant, all of them should try it.

You can compare the business models and you should. Btw you also mentioned that the game made it good, Wrong. HoN had more people than LoL and when LoL was released it was buggy and unbalanced. People joined because they were not as limited as they were in HoN and that is how Riot got the income in order to make their game the biggest.

Go to any marketting class and you learn in the first month about clashing different business models is the best way to spark your revenue. And early in there you learn to compare to other companies that are thriving before making your business model. Everyone here is just saying things they want and not looking at anything successful. They just want their perfect game, but its impossible to follow everyones advice. that is why i suggest following the success stories.

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I also want to bring something up to the person who made this poll.

These are vague, you probably should have had a discussion per item, not per shop. So we could discuss what is okay and what is a nono.


To be honest with you, that's the whole point of leaving an opinion. It's an open discussion thread, and while the poll options are vague, everyone is free to state specifically what they want from x shop. I figured that while they were pretty vague, that everyone would understand what I was generally trying to say with each option/shop.

Know what I'd be willing to pay for? DD2. Price it at 20$ or something. Are you guys hurting for money to the point where a cash shop is a thing you need to consider? Throw a subscription on DD2. I'd still buy it. And I'd bet a lot of other people would too, in both situations.

What I really don't like, is these cash shop threads that are designed to promote a payment model who's only purpose is to milk the customer for all they have, rather than to be a fair payment model. Would I pay for some of the things posted in the poll? Only those that don't affect gameplay, and those that I felt were worth my money. I see that some people have voted for non-costmetics, and that just isn't cool. If you buy ANYTHING gameplay affecting, you have an unfair advantage over everyone who can't or won't buy that thing. Should you have that? NO. All these P2W threads are really annoying, because they do not actually help DD2. If you really want to discuss viability in cash shops, please, go to EA forums. They seem to be pretty friendly to the P2W/Cash shop thing, lets not bring this in to DD2.


I'm all for a Monthly fee, if it means that future "DLC" will cost little to nothing. I hate MMO's that shove a monthly fee down your throat (the again, you do have the option of paying or not) and then ask you to pay $15+ for an item or other DLC.

The general consensus from what I've read around here is that no one wants to pay monthly (hence DDII's F2P model) and that the Pay Shop should consist of 99% cosmetic only items.

The problem however, with cosmetic only items in shops, is that people who don't buy Cosmetic items won't be supporting the game; unless there's some sort of compromise on boosts or Limited Edition Items (by the way, I wasn't the one who voted for LE, even though I'm all for em'.) or Characters... etc...

Edit: Also, selling DDII at a flat rate isn't what TE is after. If they can have a constant source of money income (read: cash cow) then they can work on developing other games that we'll enjoy and release them with support. If DDII is successful, then support for it will continue throughout many years (read: World of Warcraft or Runescape).

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Papa

Ignore the moba aspect, just look at the business models, they could still work for both games. That is all im saying. Who cares if it was done by a moba if it could work for a td.

The league business model can work for many other games. it seriously should be looked at, before dismissing it by saying "its not moba"

If Mcdonalds started selling pies, would it be dumb for any other place to sell pies because they are not mcdonalds? No, business models can work for many different businesses, that shouldn't be an issue.


But they are different. MOBA is PvP so you can get away with character creations being from because they only add different elements, they don't elevate the game play experience and help to beat the next map. Plus how many Dota2 maps are there? and LoL maps? it's very limited and completely different game play styles.

DD is PvC and you have to see that creating the same business model would cause the game to be watered down. DD you need new heroes to advance into the new DLCs. In MOBAs you can just be a brainless noob running around and as long as your team is good and you don't feed the opposite team then you can win. This isn't MOBA and won't ever be.

That is why if there is a pay shop then I only think cosmetics should be allowed. I just don't see a good turn out enough to make the MOBA business model work for this style and size game.

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The sad part of this is you didn't read my entire post or even the part of my responds so i may repeat it a few times for you.
heroes can be obtained in the game without paying
heroes can be obtained in the game without paying
heroes can be obtained in the game without paying
heroes can be obtained in the game without paying

hopefully that is enough. If you saved up enough for the new hero of a different currency or mana or whatever they decide, then when a new hero comes out you have a choice to purchase it with ingame currency or cash. Woah what a concept, if only there was another game which did something like that so we could see if it works? ohh wait league did it, and they're are the highest net worth game.

Sorry for the sarcasm, I agreed with you. Have you played league of legends? Their business model is close to flawless.

Edit: look at the blue highlighted part of my post, it clearly explains anything limited can be pushed through by playing the game. All non cosmetic things can be obtained through playing even if some can also be obtained through paying.

Imagine it this way. Game is released, 4 classes and a spoiler for a 5th, a currency to purchase champions, this currency requires 1 hour a day played once a day for 2 weeks to get the champion (you can play more on days or less, that is just an average). If you can't commit to that it will take longer or you have to pay money $$. However you can save up BEFORE the hero/champ comes out so when hes released you dont have to pay $$.


You are trying to justify allowing heroes to be purchased with real currency by saying that a system can be added in game for that hero to be earned a different way. Sorry. It won't work for me. It is still P2W. Real currency will affect the gameplay itself.

They might be the highest net worth game. Do you see me playing it? Absolutely not. Never have. Never will. It isn't close to flawless for me because of things that they do. Net worth isn't a deciding factor for me. It never will be. That isn't what I judge success on. I don't like capitalism and what it causes. I would be a TERRIBLE business man in today's society because of what our society considers acceptable.

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Fair enough. Well I am done guys, I like the way this is going. We have some good back and forth. I am heading out. Hopefully this turns out well!

Edit: hey backstabbin i wasnt trying to convince you to play a game, my whole point was to open peoples eyes to look at multiple games business models while we were deciding this games. I mentioned a few games the discussion, I am sorry to everyone if it sounded brash. I am an investor in a few small businesses, this is how it usually goes. You need someone to look at things differently in order to get answers to problems. I believe we are slowly coming to an understanding and again i apologize, I was not starting fights I was just getting ideas out and seeing others opinions.

Once again, I like where this is going, 80% of us agree on cosmetic in the shop, the rest stays untouched, the only problem, that might not be enough revenue. Anyways I hope this turns out good.

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You are trying to justify allowing heroes to be purchased with real currency by saying that a system can be added in game for that hero to be earned a different way. Sorry. It won't work for me. It is still P2W. Real currency will affect the gameplay itself.

They might be the highest net worth game. Do you see me playing it? Absolutely not. Never have. Never will. It isn't close to flawless for me because of things that they do. Net worth isn't a deciding factor for me. It never will be. That isn't what I judge success on. I don't like capitalism and what it causes. I would be a TERRIBLE business man in today's society because of what our society considers acceptable.


If heroes aren't purchasable then what incentive is it to Trendy to make new ones? In my opinion there wouldn't be, and while I value your and everyone else's opinion, it doesn't mean it makes it a terrible business model for Trendy to use.

Characters, in all regards to Trendy for making money and having incentive to creating new and creative characters/towers/abilities, should be purchasable. A lot of the original Dungeon Defenders base will buy the new characters if they like, or they can skimp out and buy the character they want.

I had bought Dungeon Defenders when it was on sale for the whole bundle and quite honestly, I dislike a few of the characters. The Ranger is my absolute favorite character to use, but the only way to get him is to buy the Gender Swap (which isn't bad by any means, and was actually a very creative way to doing things and appealing to the opposite gender of player).

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Limited Time - Usually used in MMO's that give you the first 10 levels free but clamp down on what you can do after that. This is a bait and switch and feels like Pay to Play.

Those are listed as a trial. You know what you are walking into. You know you will be paying a subscription. That is not bait and switch in any way all at. It is pay to play, yes. I will happily play to play a game I thoroughly enjoy if there is truly enough content to warrant having to pay to play the game. Wait, I did that. I was happily paying $360 in EQ2 fees each year. Not one regret. I got more than my fair share of quality gameplay, socialization, community, etc during that time. That is why the MMO genre is capable of using a model like this. It is because how much it can offer. To keep up with that demand, you have to have some recurring revenue.
Dota2 has done it flawlessly because you don't have to pay for heroes and they are competing with LoL. Anything you buy in Dota2 is cosmetic only, no compromises.

DOTA2 has an awesome business model but their revenue is nowhere near leagues. So yeah its great for us, and steam/valve makes a lot of their money through other sources to keep it great for us. But from a business point of view, league is still make way more than Dota2

Stealing this from one of my other threads. """"Dota 2 does appear to be cosmetic only based on what I have just read and seen, however, it adds whole different problem to the table by allowing players to create cosmetics. The developers can then sell those and gives a portion of that sale to person who designed that item. That is a no go for me. I will not play a game if its developer uses its players to make them a profit by selling to other players. That is nothing more than a broker system. I want to immerse myself in a game for it being a game. I don't want to be surrounded by non-sense.

So yes, Dota 2 is completely F2P it seems and nothing appears to be affecting the gameplay itself. The question now is, are you the type of person that would play a game knowing that the profits to the developer would be coming from player-to-player transactions? Personally, I am not ok with that. I don't want my developer leeching or mooching off player-to-player transactions. I want my developer developing their own stuff. """"

Go to any marketting class and you learn in the first month about clashing different business models is the best way to spark your revenue. And early in there you learn to compare to other companies that are thriving before making your business model. Everyone here is just saying things they want and not looking at anything successful. They just want their perfect game, but its impossible to follow everyones advice. that is why i suggest following the success stories.

Your success or your econimics class's version of success is not what I call success. Success isn't judged based on net worth, ROI's, etc. It incorparates sooo much more than that. Success if very realitive to what someone believes success is.
Is there a problem with keeping anonymity? I personally am a fan of Limited Edition items being present in the cash shop. I didn't want anyone to get flamed for voting on a poll that Trendy may or may not look at.

I am just not a fan of people hiding behind anonimity and don't like not knowing why the trend of polls show the way that they go. If someone has an opinion, they can state it. No reason to hide.
If heroes aren't purchasable then what incentive is it to Trendy to make new ones? In my opinion there wouldn't be, and while I value your and everyone else's opinion, it doesn't mean it makes it a terrible business model for Trendy to use.

Heroes can be made. They should just be made with new content being added to the game. They should be purchased together with that content. It is a bundle, package, expansion, etc. It works well.

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I love the Dota2 model as a player, but I'm not sure it (or LoL) can be emulated completely. For one, Dota2 has over a hundred heroes to play; Two, it is more of a chess match game which you can play over and over again but remains new because of who you play against and the characters that you can play; And three, some of their money comes from competitions.

One thing that they do that might work here is dropping chests with random loot that take keys (payed for with real money) to open. I would support this. If chests were to drop after a victory (or defeat) or if it was a rare drop from an enemy, I would pay a little money if it were to guarantee something good; or if it had a chance to have something amazing.


@Lummywolf - That purple is terrible.

Also Dota2 creates new characters all the time and you don't have to pay for any of them.

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I love the Dota2 model as a player, but I'm not sure it (or LoL) can be emulated completely. For one, Dota2 has over a hundred heroes to play; Two, it is more of a chess match game which you can play over and over again but remains new because of who you play against and the characters that you can play; And three, some of their money comes from competitions.

One thing that they do that might work here is dropping chests with random loot that take keys (payed for with real money) to open. I would support this. If chests were to drop after a victory (or defeat) or if it was a rare drop from an enemy, I would pay a little money if it were to guarantee something good; or if it had a chance to have something amazing.


@Lummywolf - That purple is terrible.

Also Dota2 creates new characters all the time and you don't have to pay for any of them.


Lookin' for a good purple D:

Found it ^.^

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Those are listed as a trial. You know what you are walking into. You know you will be paying a subscription. That is not bait and switch in any way all at. It is pay to play, yes. I will happily play to play a game I thoroughly enjoy if there is truly enough content to warrant having to pay to play the game. Wait, I did that. I was happily paying $360 in EQ2 fees each year. Not one regret. I got more than my fair share of quality gameplay, socialization, community, etc during that time. That is why the MMO genre is capable of using a model like this. It is because how much it can offer. To keep up with that demand, you have to have some recurring revenue.


What I was referring to was games like SW-TOR. They are 'Free to Play' but then they turn into a Limited Options game. You can still play it but your options get clamped down. Now WoW is more of what you are talking about. That is a trial period and then you pay to continue playing.

Heroes can be made. They should just be made with new content being added to the game. They should be purchased together with that content. It is a bundle, package, expansion, etc. It works well.


I agree. To me there is a big difference between purchasing a hero and purchasing a bundle of content with a hero. I believe the difference to me is that a hero is optional and not everyone will have it. This creates a different game for everyone. But an expansion is something most people purchase so I feel like I am playing in the same playground as everyone else. This may be over-simplifying but it is my first gut reaction to the difference.

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I agree. To me there is a big difference between purchasing a hero and purchasing a bundle of content with a hero. I believe the difference to me is that a hero is optional and not everyone will have it. This creates a different game for everyone. But an expansion is something most people purchase so I feel like I am playing in the same playground as everyone else. This may be over-simplifying but it is my first gut reaction to the difference.


I agree to the "Bundle" pack as well. Map + Hero.

Would the hero be unlocked right away? Or would you need to complete the map first on x difficulty? Always good to generate some conversation.

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I agree to the "Bundle" pack as well. Map + Hero.

Would the hero be unlocked right away? Or would you need to complete the map first on x difficulty? Always good to generate some conversation.


Good question. I think it would be fun to have to unlock the hero in an expansion. I would want more than just a Hero plus a Map, but now we are in the area that I would just prefer more but would be willing to purchase.

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Lol im not comparing the gameplay, im comparing the business models and they ARE similar
champs/heros
skins/costumes


How can you not compare game play and the business model at the same time? And yea, my issue is that the models are SIMILAR. The reason league is able to sell costumes is because it has nothing else than pure game play and ELO as for rewards in their game.

Do you have rewards and unique drops in LoL? Do you have rare items? DO you have achievements other than once in a year?

How can you not compare key features in DD1(loot,rewards from achievements, unique skins) to LoL gameplay/cash shop? Theres no loot or achievements in LoL.

So by you'r statement it would be fine if all hero and weapon skins were in the cash shop in DD2? Since the business model is the same?

I know this is taking it to an extreme level. But that's the point, if half of the skins are gated behind real money there will be less rewards and less sense of accomplishment to get the nice looking gear.

Will DD2 be successful with a cash shop? Sadly, probably.. I hope they fail if they choose to go with it, since I've experienced it enough times. The feeling where after a while X company decides they need to bend the line. But since they have a steady line of newcomers it has no consequences.

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To be honest I would probably buy more than I voted for, but I voted for the things that would make for a more enjoyable game.

Maps and heroes have a way to divide the community when some people have them and others do not. It also feels like you're just playing a demo for the real game, even when the actual free game is pretty good on its own.

The best things to sell are cool cosmetics, like hero skins, tower skins, animations and accesories. Although even with those I'd say you need to be able to unlock a couple of cool things in-game. Having a cash shop that gets additions every week or so is also a major pitfall in my opinion - people tend to get frustrated when there's too much that's just unavailable with their budget. At least I think so, because I kind of do.

To be fair, it does depend on how the game is implemented. If I don't feel the need to play every hero in the game, I probably wouldn't mind a couple of extra cash shop items.

I'm actually not a big fan of micro-transactions either (it's a bad way for consumers to spend their money wisely), but I realize a free-to-play game needs to get funded, and I do believe it's possible to implement a cash shop the right way. Gonna be hard to do right though.

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A few posts in this thread suggested a subscription model for this game.
The subscription model is currently dying in the gaming world. What was popular 10 years ago when WoW came out now seems like an absurd amount to pay... No one want's a game that they feel like they have to play every month to make it worth their money.

The Free to Play genre of games has come into existence because companies realized a select few people would spend TONS of money on their game. The reason LoL is so HUGE is because it builds a player's attachment to a character, and allows that person to invest in the character. Other games tempt players to invest by giving them choices to improve their characters. Marvel heroes gives experience and rarity boosts that people can buy.

I think for a lot of us here as DD fans and consumers would like an expansion model. We want to buy the game. Then later when there is a large batch of new content we want to buy that too. The one problem with this is that it tends to be a model that loses player base. A F2P model not only brings in more players, it also tends to keep them around a little longer in some cases. Players don't feel that they have to buy the next ex-pac to continue if all content is readily available. But after staring at skins or a shop for a month or two they end up purchasing something...

Trendy wants a large player base for this game. They want to make money too. A subscription model would be an awful idea. The up front cost and expansion plan would work just like it did with the original. But Trendy wants more. They must be careful about P2W and managing the F2P masses. But they can make more money this way if they do it well.

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A few posts in this thread suggested a subscription model for this game.
The subscription model is currently dying in the gaming world. What was popular 10 years ago when WoW came out now seems like an absurd amount to pay... No one want's a game that they feel like they have to play every month to make it worth their money.

The Free to Play genre of games has come into existence because companies realized a select few people would spend TONS of money on their game. The reason LoL is so HUGE is because it builds a player's attachment to a character, and allows that person to invest in the character. Other games tempt players to invest by giving them choices to improve their characters. Marvel heroes gives experience and rarity boosts that people can buy.

I think for a lot of us here as DD fans and consumers would like an expansion model. We want to buy the game. Then later when there is a large batch of new content we want to buy that too. The one problem with this is that it tends to be a model that loses player base. A F2P model not only brings in more players, it also tends to keep them around a little longer in some cases. Players don't feel that they have to buy the next ex-pac to continue if all content is readily available. But after staring at skins or a shop for a month or two they end up purchasing something...

Trendy wants a large player base for this game. They want to make money too. A subscription model would be an awful idea. The up front cost and expansion plan would work just like it did with the original. But Trendy wants more. They must be careful about P2W and managing the F2P masses. But they can make more money this way if they do it well.


You know a pay shop like LoL wouldn't hurt as long as the only things that don't affect game play. You broke it down very nicely here so we can all see the big pros and cons of each model.

I vote for F2P with cosmetic shop. When they come out with expansions they need to make another NM difficulty for those that get the expansions to separate the people that only want a free game from those that actually want the full content. They also will need to include all new content into each ex-pac. This means you spend $10 but you get the new campaign map, any challenge maps, and the new hero. That way it's not P2W because you will be able to beat every map without having to shell out extra cash to get a new hero to beat them.

One thing that was a good tactic for getting skins to sell for LoL that could be useful in DD2 would be the use of in-game currency other than $ and mana. This would be bought by $$ obviously but in LoL they use RP (if I remember correctly). They give you RP for just being logged in frequently and Trendy could use this same idea to help people get close to buying a skin. Obviously you wouldn't get enough free "RP" to buy a skin but you could get within 25% of it and you just have to pay $2.50 for a skin. Another tactic is only allowing people to buy ingame currency in increments of 5. The only thing I would BEG Trendy to avoid is making player use this currency to get ex-pacs. The in-game currency should only be for the cosmetic shop, imo.

Idk what you all think of this but I hope you get what I'm saying and will expand on this.

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Sorry I am late for the thread, as for every thread.
I just want to say, if Trendy sees, that if you really want to have a good guy business model in this game, do not put any actual content only accessable by cash.
I am completely ok with all cosmetic effects, and boosts to get to top faster. The payment model in League of Legends is quite cool in my opinion, even better in Dota 2 though.

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Sorry I am late for the thread, as for every thread.
I just want to say, if Trendy sees, that if you really want to have a good guy business model in this game, do not put any actual content only accessable by cash.
I am completely ok with all cosmetic effects, and boosts to get to top faster. The payment model in League of Legends is quite cool in my opinion, even better in Dota 2 though.


The thing about those two games is that both are skill based. Every match starts with everyone at Level 1. It doesn't matter much if you have leveled your account up to 30 or not because all games are balanced for the most part. So you can get a boost to exp and crap but it doesn't hurt the game play but making people get to the end game fast... because there isn't an endgame.

With DD there is an endgame. If you sell these boosts for loot and exp you end up letting people blast through the game play and water down the importance of grinding for loot and the fun social aspects of trying your best to beat the next level with a mediocre team with mediocre gear. If you sell boosts to loot and exp then you allow players to get good loot easily and faster and they will end up filling afk shops with good gear so that lower level people can buy it making the game too easy. This is not an option for this style of game. For a MOBA, yes but not for RTS-RPG

EDIT: To expand on my first paragraph. You also need to look at MOBA as a PvP which keeps the game balanced and each match is fresh and fair as opposed to DD which a lvl 1 with no gear compared to a level 100 with Ultimate gear makes a huge difference. Those boosts you speak of don't change anything within the matches of LoL other than the customization of champions. You can focus a champion into a tank/support, or DPS/armor pen. That is the only benefit to the exp boosts. In DD the exp boost brings you to the endgame too fast so more players will jump ship sooner before Trendy can even release DLC.

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Trendy would be best off following the Path of Exile model. Path of Exile is a Diablo clone than allowed players to pay for the following...
--stash tabs
--cosmetic effects
--dances
--pets that have no buff to the player
--T-shirts, stickers, key chains
--in beta players could pay to design a unique item or a monster

This is the best F2P model I have seen for an item grinder... I actually dumped a hundred dollars into it which is the most I've spent on any game other than Star Wars Galaxies. It requires a loyal core fan base, but seems to be doing very well with between 5-10k players online at any given time. I think this is comparable to what Trendy has fan base wise and could be easily transferred to Dungeon Defenders 2.

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The thing about those two games is that both are skill based. Every match starts with everyone at Level 1. It doesn't matter much if you have leveled your account up to 30 or not because all games are balanced for the most part. So you can get a boost to exp and crap but it doesn't hurt the game play but making people get to the end game fast... because there isn't an endgame.

Sorry to say but LoL has "endgame" with the runes and owning the champions and stuff.

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And i think we need to look at RPG pay shops and not MOBAs since this is an RPG game.

by dances are you talking about emotes? or would this be something that you could set up for each hero to do after you win a wave?

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Sorry to say but LoL has "endgame" with the runes and owning the champions and stuff.


Alright, whats the ending? Which champion wins? I must not have gotten to the point where credit roll and you see that your efforts haven't been in vain. You obiously save some damsel... Caitlyn? Or is it Ashe? maybe Teemo, that ugly midget... Please tell me the ending. Tell me how playing a PvP game has an ending.

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