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donnyb20

Chest Keys and Instanced Mana

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What was your thoughts on these? I believe it worked as follows, each player got 2 chest keys per wave and the chest mana was instanced, chest re-spawned with time but you could only access them with a key. I believe dropped mana was instanced too, but not sure on that one.

I only had a chance to play about 3 matches tonight but I thought it worked well from what I seen. It seemed to allow each person access to mana and encouraged teamwork more.

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Gonna go ahead and mention I very much hate the keys. Its another feature that, forces multiplayer in the playtests. Even if it isn't a playtest only feature, it means I am even further limited in just the chest mana I can recieve. Dislike all the things about the keys.

Apparently Instanced chests means each player has their own chests. So now you are limiting each player to 2 of their own unique chests. Why? Just so I can't build more? iamisom mentioned its to prevent mana hogs, but the chests are per-player, no? This just restricts what any one player can do in a turn.

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I wasn't an avid fan of them, but it seemed to work well when four people were on the map. When it was less than that, you were at a severe disadvantage. Not only did you have less active heroes, you had less mana to build defenses.

I'd be happy to let the keys stay if we had some sort of method to gain equal amounts of mana when less than four people were playing on a given map.

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I hated it. I don't like to play multi-player. In DD1, I played solo for a very long time. Yet DD2 isn't going to give me that option by the looks of it. "(

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I wasn't an avid fan of them, but it seemed to work well when four people were on the map. When it was less than that, you were at a severe disadvantage. Not only did you have less active heroes, you had less mana to build defenses.

I'd be happy to let the keys stay if we had some sort of method to gain equal amounts of mana when less than four people were playing on a given map.


Even then I can't see this being beneficial in any way. Why limit is so harshly with mana? It's one thing to only have the mobs drop so much mana, which I'm not terribly a fan of, but to limit even the chests? It starves you for mana at this point, even in four player games. I am reluctant to say I "hate a feature", but I will willingly say that here.

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I hated it. I don't like to play multi-player. In DD1, I played solo for a very long time. Yet DD2 isn't going to give me that option by the looks of it. "(


I don't get the impression that this game won't be solo viable, I believe the key system to be great for public games though. At least, I hope I'm right, as like you I'm more a solo player too.

Even then I can't see this being beneficial in any way. Why limit is so harshly with mana? It's one thing to only have the mobs drop so much mana, which I'm not terribly a fan of, but to limit even the chests? It starves you for mana at this point, even in four player games. I am reluctant to say I "hate a feature", but I will willingly say that here.


Players can still drop the green mana with ] though, I think an easier way around this would simply be allowing you to set a key to free up your keys, i.e. destroy them letting others access your chests.

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I don't get the impression that this game won't be solo viable, I believe the key system to be great for public games though. At least, I hope I'm right, as like you I'm more a solo player too.

Players can still drop the green mana with ] though, I think an easier way around this would simply be allowing you to set a key to free up your keys, i.e. destroy them letting others access your chests.


Even with players dropping mana, it still is FAR more limited. Unnecessarily too. Every player gets 2 chests out of the... 3? 5? on the map. 25-50 from each chest it seems.
That means up to 400 mana a wave at BEST, spread across 4 people. More than likely less due to the randomness of the chests.

I really, really wish they would stop putting in features to limit solo viability, even during playtests. It really ruins the feel of the game. Forced multi player is no-good.

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Even with players dropping mana, it still is FAR more limited. Unnecessarily too. Every player gets 2 chests out of the... 3? 5? on the map. 25-50 from each chest it seems.
That means up to 400 mana a wave at BEST, spread across 4 people. More than likely less due to the randomness of the chests.

I really, really wish they would stop putting in features to limit solo viability, even during playtests. It really ruins the feel of the game. Forced multi player is no-good.


Well, at this point I feel we need a reply from Trendy as to their goal of the game; in regards to whether it's intent is to be completely multiplayer focused or if solo play in a similar fashion to the original Dungeon Defenders is going to be a part of the game too.

On topic of the chest keys and instanced mana particularly in relation to public groups? I think it's a great addition. Do I want this to mean solo isn't possible or become a mere afterthought? Absolutely not. :)

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Well, at this point I feel we need a reply from Trendy as to their goal of the game; in regards to whether it's intent is to be completely multiplayer focused or if solo play in a similar fashion to the original Dungeon Defenders is going to be a part of the game too.

On topic of the chest keys and instanced mana particularly in relation to public groups? I think it's a great addition. Do I want this to mean solo isn't possible or become a mere afterthought? Absolutely not. :)


They have said that they want DD2 to be solo-viable in another thread, like DD1 was. I am giving my thoughts on this thing as a multiplayer feature. Blunder of the century to try and add this to single player... As a multiplayer feature I hate this. As a single player feature, it would kill the game for me.

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They have said that they want DD2 to be solo-viable in another thread, like DD1 was. I am giving my thoughts on this thing as a multiplayer feature. Blunder of the century to try and add this to single player... As a multiplayer feature I hate this. As a single player feature, it would kill the game for me.


I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then, alas the poll will no doubt provide decent feedback on whether to keep the system in place.

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Even though there arent that many responses yet, I think the results of the poll are pretty surprising given the largely negative nature of the posts in this thread.

Not that I like the current treasure keys. However, I actually wouldnt mind them as a sort of mode, like hardcore or mix mode. It would force cooperation but increase loot quality. So you get to choose whether to keep all the loot to yourself or to share better loot with other players.

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What was your thoughts on these? I believe it worked as follows, each player got 2 chest keys per wave and the chest mana was instanced, chest re-spawned with time but you could only access them with a key. I believe dropped mana was instanced too, but not sure on that one.

I only had a chance to play about 3 matches tonight but I thought it worked well from what I seen. It seemed to allow each person access to mana and encouraged teamwork more.



i like the idea of keys but i was playing solo my first game and so as oswarlan basically said it killed the ability to play alone or for one player to do more of the building. i like the idea but it neads some work, like say having the number of keys per player change depending on the number of players

edit to add that i like both i just think they need to be expanded upon

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To all those who like the idea of keys, let me ask you this. Why? What do they offer? Their only purpose is to limit the mana that YOU can obtain per wave. Chests are already per-player. Nobody can take that mana from you. The mana you get from them is per-player. Nobody can stand by you and take it. So, knowing this, why? What good do these keys serve, other than to limit mana unnecessarily?

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After reading some of the post in here, i'm not sure I understand some of the negatives being pointed out as it relates to these 2 features. One of the things I keep hearing is green mana is limited because of this, I don't see how. Prior to the keys, there would be 4-5 chest on a map, each player would have to scramble for a chest before they were gone. Now each player is locked to only 2 chests, this technically means 4 players = 8 chests. I think the issue might be the introduction of levels. Before, each character had 250 green mana that they could hold, now at level 1 you only have 50 and I believe it increases by 25 every new level. When picking up chest for the first time it will fill all your mana. The limiting factor is coming from this, in previous play tests for each player that was 250, now it's 50 + (25 * (level - 1)), so 4 players before meant 1000 mana, and now with 4 level 1's it's 200, hence a lost of 800 mana on the first wave.

I do agree that the keys should be increased when less players are playing, so if 1 player then you should get 8 keys. I'm guessing the idea right now is that you shouldn't start the match until you have 4 players, as the game is based on 4 players per game, the other aspects are not in place right now, such as solo play.

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To all those who like the idea of keys, let me ask you this. Why? What do they offer? Their only purpose is to limit the mana that YOU can obtain per wave. Chests are already per-player. Nobody can take that mana from you. The mana you get from them is per-player. Nobody can stand by you and take it. So, knowing this, why? What good do these keys serve, other than to limit mana unnecessarily?


I believe the purpose of the keys is to give each player a chance at the mana. If not, and the chests re-spawn you'd have endless mana. If the chests don't re-spawn, then it would be the same as before and the first person to the chests get the mana, others do without. Having the keys and re-spawning chests guarantees each player equal mana, if they want to give it to another player, that's their choice.

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I believe the purpose of the keys is to give each player a chance at the mana. If not, and the chests re-spawn you'd have endless mana. If the chests don't re-spawn, then it would be the same as before and the first person to the chests get the mana, others do without. Having the keys and re-spawning chests guarantees each player equal mana, if they want to give it to another player, that's their choice.


Did you miss the part where chests are per-player/instanced? Everyone already gets equal mana. Nobody can interfere with you getting your mana. The keys only keep you from getting more of your own chests. If everyone runs to the same chest, everyone still gets that chest.

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Did you miss the part where chests are per-player/instanced? Everyone already gets equal mana. Nobody can interfere with you getting your mana. The keys only keep you from getting more of your own chests. If everyone runs to the same chest, everyone still gets that chest.


This is nothing but an implementation detail, and I don't see how it changes anything. What's the difference if you have 2 keys and each chest gives you 50 mana, or if you have access to all 4 chest and each chest gives you 25 mana? I personally wouldn't care either way it's implemented, but with the keys, it might open up opportunities in the future. For instance, a pet that gives you an extra key, a skill when leveling up that gives a key, or items that might do something with it.

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Good in concept, but definitely needs some refinement. First, remove this for solo play. Make 'solo' a separate join/gameplay option, ensuring that other players can not enter a solo game, thus abusing the system. Second, make additional keys a low % drop during each wave, adding a bit of randomness. Lastly, allow us to unlock or otherwise purchase additional permanent Keys.

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This is nothing but an implementation detail, and I don't see how it changes anything. What's the difference if you have 2 keys and each chest gives you 50 mana, or if you have access to all 4 chest and each chest gives you 25 mana? I personally wouldn't care either way it's implemented, but with the keys, it might open up opportunities in the future. For instance, a pet that gives you an extra key, a skill when leveling up that gives a key, or items that might do something with it.


Between what you gave? There is no difference. But what we have now, is just more limiting of mana. Especially since each chest right now gives 25-50. Sure we could potentially get more keys during combat or whatever, but that is just a hindrance to the process. Why not just give us that mana at the start? Worked great in DD1, why change it? Furthermore, why limit mana like this?

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I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then, alas the poll will no doubt provide decent feedback on whether to keep the system in place.


I disagree with you too! I'm against any system that forces a certain way to play.

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Between what you gave? There is no difference. But what we have now, is just more limiting of mana. Especially since each chest right now gives 25-50. Sure we could potentially get more keys during combat or whatever, but that is just a hindrance to the process. Why not just give us that mana at the start? Worked great in DD1, why change it? Furthermore, why limit mana like this?


I do agree that mana was limited this time, but I think that had more to do with the introduction of levels. I know before when you pick up your first mana in a game it always seemed to fill your mana full, which was 250, now with levels that amount is only 50 at level 1, so you lose 200 of that mana initially. I believe they scaled back the difficulty of the mob to account for this. I think a better approach might be to just always have the chest give out X mana, like it did in DD1.

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I do agree that mana was limited this time, but I think that had more to do with the introduction of levels. I know before when you pick up your first mana in a game it always seemed to fill your mana full, which was 250, now with levels that amount is only 50 at level 1, so you lose 200 of that mana initially. I believe they scaled back the difficulty of the mob to account for this. I think a better approach might be to just always have the chest give out X mana, like it did in DD1.


It gave a set amount previously too. If you had a bit above the 250 or whatever it gave you, some fell on the ground. But this is not the point here. I am okay with them changing the amount the chests give to scale with the area. I am okay with them changing the amount they give because it is an easier map.

I am very much NOT okay with them giving us keys to open SOME of the chests. Why not just throw down 2 chests right by spawn and be done with it? Keys are a bad idea.

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It gave a set amount previously too. If you had a bit above the 250 or whatever it gave you, some fell on the ground. But this is not the point here. I am okay with them changing the amount the chests give to scale with the area. I am okay with them changing the amount they give because it is an easier map.

I am very much NOT okay with them giving us keys to open SOME of the chests. Why not just throw down 2 chests right by spawn and be done with it? Keys are a bad idea.


Or even just instantly grant the mana - call me crazy, but you could ditch chests altogether and just give each person X mana after every wave. Make loot rewards from completing maps like challenges in DD1 where its deposited directly into your inventory.

I know this would be a pretty radical change, but I'm just throwing it out there for argument's sake.

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Or even just instantly grant the mana - call me crazy, but you could ditch chests altogether and just give each person X mana after every wave. Make loot rewards from completing maps like challenges in DD1 where its deposited directly into your inventory.

I know this would be a pretty radical change, but I'm just throwing it out there for argument's sake.


You want to remove floor loot? No thanks. I don't really like having it instanced even, but I guess it has to be done.

Instant mana would remove some of the game play. Although I've just alt + f4 quite some in DD1 because it was such a rush to build. But I think build time should stay in and also chests. But keys? Nope, unless we get enough keys to unlock all the mana in the round. Aka, being useless other than telling you how much more chests you are able to get.

Also with this instant mana, what if you'r mana pool is smaller than the amount needed to setup for wave 1? Should mana pool also be removed then? Don't like this idea when I think about it. Just keep the DD1 style, was there ever an issue where people felt that there had to be a limit how much mana you could pickup? I feel like this is a cheap system added to fix issues with instanced mana nothing more.

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