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Ranged Combat - First Council Seat Giveaway

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1. I really like the fact that you can upgrade the projectile amount, speed, reload speed and shots per second. I also like the big variety of different weapons: Grenade lauchers Crossbows, Spider web guns, AoE guns, rifles, Pawn shots, Stone throwers, card throwing polearms and last but not least, The Mighty Chicken Gun Of Distruction which still makes me laugh ;) On both staffs and guns you did a great job on the shooting effects. It kept me searching for new weapons and testing them out. I still remember how my friend kept equipping new guns constantly because he was so excited to see what they do.

2. It was too easy to survive with ranged heroes. You just sat there shooting at goblins and orcs which had no chance on surviving. Of course there are djinns and ogre copters but when they are attacking the defense, you are pretty much off the hook. In my opinion there has to be an enemy with a primary attack target on ranged heroes if the heroes are attacking enemies close to that "anti air enemy".

3. One idea I had just got: What if you had an ability to attack with a mount and bladeish style where you see an enemy in front of you, you hold a mouse or keyboard button and swing your mouse to right of left while your hero still keeps looking at the enemy but swings his weapon left or right. Then you move your mouse back to that enemy and your hero does some kind of a special attack. This could be done with analog sticks too.

4. Projectile trails and trail effects. The Rain Maker? How about making a staff that has one projectile. That projectile has a trail that makes a raining effect. These trails could also have a fire effect where the fire rises up from the trail. A trail that creates dirt that eventually falls to the ground? I dont see how this wouldnt be awesome. This would need a setting where you could lower the quality or maybe turn it off so that everyone could be happy though.

Thats my opinion. Sorry for my imperfect English...

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im going to answer these questions with the perspective of a nightmare mode player. with the introduction of mythical gear, insane mode became a trivial matter so giving answers based on that i think is erroneous.

1) the biggest strength of ranged combat was the biggest strength that ranged combat always has, and that is that it is faster, generally more effective, and always safer than melee combat. beyond that, ranged combat in DD1 was favored because of multiple projectiles, shots per second, and the ability to penetrate layers of mobs (splash damage in the case of staffs). melee damage (from what i have heard, never cared for it myself, because...) was a non-factor in the majority of the game because it was frequently the only mobs you would be attacking head on were ones that could kill you in a few hits, or you would get swarmed by the various special mobs like goblin copters and spiders. it was a liability to use melee damage, given that most players played on hardcore, because you were far to susceptible to inevitable death. ranged combat avoided this issue and let even extremely causal players perform exceptionally well.

2) the biggest weakness of ranged combat was not directly related to ranged combat itself, but rather systems beyond the player's control like enemy flight height and clipping. with the introduction of classes that had higher damage and health multipliers, there became very little reason to ever use a melee weapon over a ranged weapon.

3) i dont really think improvements are necessary. ranged combat is one of those things about the game that players looked at and said "this works like i imagine it is supposed to." it could easily be argued that that means it is too good, though. all the same, i, and probably most others, feel ranged combat is on the money.

4) lasers were never really a projectile considered. and when i say lasers i mean something comparable to the series EV ability. maybe a smaller radius, and longer length, but a persistent beam is the key thing here. the types of projectiles i think were relatively well covered in the first game, so i would say things like utility being added to weapons would be something to focus on more. things like snares, debuffs, damage over times, stuns, like that.

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Im a console player, so take all of this in that context. Some of my ideas may be moot or already resolved in DD1 on PC. Im also already on the council; just trying to help. Ive also purposefully not read the other responses, so please forgive any duplication with previous posts. Im brainstorming entirely on my own.

Strengths:

The ability to shoot through walls is rare. Its OP and should be rare or nonexistent in DD2.

Largely, the ranged system as it stands is good.

Weaknesses:

Squires not having a ranged attack at all was a weakness. Been discussed but remains true.

As the game developed, the decision-making process between elemental and base damage became moot. It would make for better game balance if few or no ranged attack weapons were base damage. There should be trade-offs between ranged elemental and ranged base in the same way as there were for melee when we first started as players. Your level 40 squire who didnt have enough hero attack points to make a base damage weapon worth it would have to rely on elemental. Id like to see a wide array of weaponry options for ranged attack that forces players to make decisions that dont necessarily stem entirely from how many hero attack points you have available.

In a system where xp is rewarded in part on not taking player damage, a ranged attack character (huntress) has an advantage in leveling up over a non-ranged (squire) that I dont think should exist in DD2.

Suggestions:

A weapon with projectiles so fast that they teleport to the target (Dharmas Blade) and simply hit it instantaneously, never visible in transit. Cooler if only one projectile existed, like a sniper rifle but would need to be reasonably powerful to make up for the lack of area-clearing ability.

A weapon that is specifically designed to be long-range and is either unable to hit short-range targets, or does more damage the farther it flies. Or perhaps can be purposefully charged in order to hit enemies farther away so the player can elect to bypass closer enemies when they choose to.

An ability like mana bomb which does little or no damage, but has immense knockback and a similar (long) cooldown. Last resort, the crystal is surrounded, apprentice saves the day by clearing the area entirely for a few seconds anyway. Can it knock back extremely heavy enemies? Maybe it depends on whether the enemy in question is wearing a powerful item which he picked up somewhere between the spawn and the crystal? I can envision a cave with trolls who while they want to destroy our crystals, also learn as they go that they can buff themselves in some ways (including but not limited to being impossible to knock back) if they find some item on the map. This falls into the smarter enemies realm for sure. Cool and useful on a map with lots of narrow paths near steep cliffs where players might be motivated to push enemies to their deaths to begin with, like on the side of a mountain.

A weapon whose projectiles rebound and damage other enemies and/or the environment itself. For either cosmetic effect only or some hidden game purpose.

Id like to see Monk ranged weapons have charge speed. Not huntress weapons though, though maybe depending on the weapon

A ranged attack that draws enemies closer to the character. Maybe its an ability rather than a ranged attack. But a tractor beam that can lure an enemy away from a crystal or another player would be cool.

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First of all: I already got my council seat:

1) In my opinion the biggest strength would be the great damage you can do from distance, but also that you are able to burst even more from a close distance.

2) The greatest weakness is for me the little variety you have of ranged weapons that are viable in late game, at least as huntress. I myself didn't play her alot, but my best friend, who i am always playing with, after some time just didn't want to farm anymore.

3) The one thing I would love you guys to improve is the variety of viable weapons in late game. Other then that I am mostly fine.

4) I would love some weapons like you already have the particle effect on the piercing arrows. The ones where like a sonic wave emits from it,spreads out and gets together again. That all without a arrow and i guess you would have a nice weapon, especially since it's hitbox would differ, it really is interesting!
Other then that, I also would love some more pierce weapons in general, The wallpiercing is not even necessary. Just a tool to kill enemy's more quickly, but I am not sure on that. I want to experience the new combat system before i can judge on that ;)

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?
Actually, what I love the most in DD's ranged combat are the very cool looking arrows and the smoothness. I love how the enemies get hit by the projectile, the sound and the knockback. I also like the not to fast speed of them, and lastly I looove area of effect attacks (mana bomb, grenade launcher, etc).
2. What were the biggest weaknesses?
In lower levels the ranged classes are pretty much underpowered. Squire has much higher damage and it's easier with him. Although at higher levels it's balanced. I also think that the apprentice's attacks should look cleaner.
3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?
More faster velocity + faster shooting rate + lower damage weapons. Spamming monsters with weak shots is SO MUCH FUN!!!
4. What new projectile type would you like to see? (Think DD1's varied projectile types, but be creative! Ex: A projectile that explodes at random intervals as it travels before hitting its target.)
I think that some kind of homing shots would be awesome. Magic balls that attract to the monsters or some kind of ability that will do the job.
I would also like to see projectile weapons that attack multiple enemies, like thunder staff or something like that.

BTW: Daniel Haddad, are you from Israel?

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Already have a council spot, but here's my five cent

1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?
Being able to deal with foes at a range was a huge benefit, especially when upgrading your defences in combination with a genie.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?
The fact that long-ranged attacks were not a viable way to deal damage to bosses and stronger enemies. Also the ranged spell-type attacks had very slow projectiles(comparatively to say an E-cannon), and did not do increased damage to compensate.
Again iterating on the previous statement, weapons with low rate-of-fire and slow projectile speeds felt awkward to use as there was really no upside to the slower weapons except the in-game price which tended to be lower.

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?
Reflecting on my statements about weaknesses I'd like to see ranged damage dealers be competetive with melee damage dealers, they should however have to sacrifice defences to be able to compete. This can be done in a number of ways, such as decreasing resistance effects when having a ranged weapon equipped, this would have to be done in a way so that it does not become mandatory to increase defensive stats beyond that of a melee character just to be able to soak damage. The ranged playstyle needs to be an active one!

4. What new projectile type would you like to see?
I would like to see continuous attack type weapons, think water-gun on steroids, that will leave "slag" or damage over time components on the ground, and/or attach to foes dealing damage to them as burn or acid attacks do in other games.

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If I accidentally copy someone's ideas and opinions, it was completely unintentional!

1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?

-The ability to attack large clusters of enemies without having to charge into the fray and potentially get killed. It also, Depending on the level's layout, allows you to somewhat defend two lanes at once, which is useful when playing by yourself.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?

-Weapons with multiple shots felt somewhat overpowered. While it is very satisfying to annihilate a big cluster of enemies, it made things feel a bit too easy. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Depending on the situation your in, it could be a very good thing) On the contrary, some weapons (Namely weapons you get around the beginning) felt very under powered. For example, I found a huntress weapon that had only one shot and took what felt like forever to reload

-Elemental attacks felt more like an additional stat which added more attack to your weapon.


3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?

-Maybe change it so that based on the weapon's attributes, it will deal more or less damage. (Making sure of course not to make them super overpowered) Ex: Slower shot speed weapons would deal slightly more damage than a faster one, A huntress weapon with less ammo would deal slightly more damage than one with more ammo

-As for elemental attacks, DD II has already superbly changed it! My only suggestion would be that maybe you should add aesthetic changes based on the weapons element. Ex: A staff with a lightning element would shoot bolts of energy with electricity flowing through it, a bow that has a fire element would shoot flaming arrows.

4. What new projectile type would you like to see? (Think DD1's varied projectile types, but be creative! Ex: A projectile that explodes at random intervals as it travels before hitting its target.)

-a projectile that when it hits its target it would split up in different directions
-a Projectile that could ricochet off of walls
- Projectiles that behave based on their element Ex: lightning attacks could go through multiple enemies, fire attacks inflict burn (I think something like this was talked about by a Trendy member during the DD 2 year anniversary stream)

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It's really hard to say without knowing what exactly you have there and what do you want to achieve (other than happy players :P) so I've decided to just brainstorm and I might have made a digression or two.


1
-Not too much to complain about. Melee on the other hand was quite awkward to use.
-Feels good to kill lots of mobs from distance.


2
-Aim assist. If the mob was on a fan-elevator (think Sky City) it was nearly impossible to hit it and the Piercing Shot also almost always missed. Also this:

-Bonus projectiles are hard to use if you want to hit a single target (boss/ogre).
-The ranged characters are kinda too safe in the back line.


3
-Smarter aim assist for sure. It's really annoying when you have to stand on Sky City and pew pew pew at an ogre who got stuck while 90% of your shots just miss (including skills).
-I'd test spreading the projectiles more the farther you aim (and less the closer the target is) so that you can effectively use multiple projectiles against single targets too. This way players have to come closer but can still shoot from a reasonable distance and can decide if it's worth coming closer or perhaps rather shoot from afar.
-Friendly Fire! Not exactly only about ranged, but mostly. The game would require much more attention and planning if you could hit your allies and towers (even only as an optional tick in options, or maybe only on HC). It just doesn't feel right when you Mana Bomb everything away but your towers are still there. I'd say that DD1 wasn't too good with that also considering environment. Things were just a bit too static, but that's a whole another topic to discuss.


4
-A ray of energy, that damages everything in one single line (or not single).
-A hook, to pull the enemy to you or to pull yourself to the enemy (or both a the same time or maybe LMB could pull the mob and RMB pull you and pressing both would pull both or it could depend on the size of enemy).
-You guys mentioned that you wanted to create 'combos' (like setting a guy covered in oil on fire). How about combining 2 skills or different projectiles from 2 different weapons?

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I would love a seat but I would also love you to consider my feedback.
1- The biggest strength in Dungeon Defenders ranged combat is that it is simple and easy to understand. It's very much pick-up and play and kind on new players.
2- The biggest weakness had to be the lack of variety, most of the weapons seemed to feel the same and not many had anything massively different. And any weapon that did have something special was never a viable option due to its lack of usability or its damage. Things like the flamethrower or grenade launcher always felt a bit lackluster and left me wanting more. It also felt to me like there was no point in charging up your shots as a mage, it wasted time and the damage output never felt rewarding enough. I would love to see the charge mechanic replaced with an alternate fire, this would fix both of these issues in one simple change.
3- To improve the ranged experience in Dungeon Defenders, I would like to see it become more challenging and skill based by maybe introducing slight recoil on some weapons or maybe adding 'bullet drop'. It would also be nice to see sights introduced for those who like to sit back and pick off those pesky wyverns. Another idea would be to work on the first person aspect so that this is a viable option and give a more immersed, challenging experience, but if this is to be the case, you would need to introduce an 'Aim Down Sights' mechanic.
4- I have a few ideas for new projectile types including lazer beams, sticky bombs or scatter guns (Shotguns). It would be cool to see some steam-punk rocket launchers of hand cannons. Or even a nyan cat gun that endlessly plays the song while you shoot.
A great projectile that could also promote working as a team would be a weapon (Or element) similar to the 'Slag' effect in Borderlands 2. This weapon would shoot out this purple (Or any colour) Goo that would do little direct damage to enemies but it would slow them down and make them take more damage from other players or traps. But for that to work you would probably need a class capable of switching between two weapons.
I could go on forever with this but I need to study for my exams! :P

Hope this helps,
~Dan

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1 range combat was in a lot of ways the only way to get past levels for me until I found or trade for good armor. my towers had to take damage and I had to DPS with range so I could kill and heal.

Now on keyboard range had different pros then controller. Keyboard you could zoon In and out, and pick who you wanted to attack. For controller was about the same but u couldn't pick it was a who was closer and no first person view.

Class weapons all had there own pros. Monk got a lot of spread and damage up close.
Hunt got spread base on weapon type but furthest range damage.
Apprentice got spread but damage only came with charge up.


2 cons for for keyboard and controller for me was auto aim. I had my hunt on tavern defence and in first person view. I attacked across water to kill Turkey but if not aimed right I would miss from auto aim making it hit the ground or controller you had hard time with flying for not being able to look up.

For classes monk if all your shots didn't his one target your damage was not the best.
Hunt limited spread so she became a one unit killer.
Apprentice charge shot was his damage.
Range where u could do damage.

3 I would like higher speed for projectile. Further distance that you can shoot. Have were u could hold a button and add ammo to the shot then shoot multiple.

4 I like the idea of passing through enemies but a lock on would be cool to. Also combine multiple types together to get unique weapons. Have difftent projectile shoot different base on character u were using .

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?
Well there were many different strengths to the Range combat system. one strength was that different guns/bows etc. did many different tasks, for example the crystal tracker did aoe which helped out a lot with different tasks. So you had to be really strategic, which guns put out the best dps. And which gun was best to use for the mission you were doing.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?
Biggest weaknesses i believe are that i felt as though the range combat fell off a little bit as the game went on. I realize that you cant make the range tooo op but they range character just turned into a repair char.. and not dps at all. Which kind of sucked because ranged chars are my favorite and it just didn't scale as well as melee did.

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?
I would improve the amount of dps a range character can do. Obviously don't do it too much but make so you are able to do hard bosses with a range char instead of having to switch to a barb. Also make some more of the range characters viable so there isn't just a mass population of 1 character being played.

4. What new projectile type would you like to see?
I personally would like to see a heat seeking missile kind of gun. I believe that you should be able to lock on to a monster. for example an ogre and it makes splash dmg but to make it not as op there is a long reload time and it doesn't shoot very fast. Plus I also think you should add freeze guns or poison or chain lighting. Maybe add some more "mythical" types of projectile in the game that can maybe be super effective to certain monsters like lighting would do more dmg to water type monsters and and water to fire etc.

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I already have a council seat but here are my thoughts...

1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?
Being able to be on the attack while also staying within the defences for repairs and upgrades.


2. What were the biggest weaknesses?
Lack of variety/versatility for Apprentice and monk weapons since they both had the same basic spread attack on ALL weapons


3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?
really need different attack types on the monk/apprentice weapons, like the huntress with pawn shot/Blaster/E Cannon/Krytical Strike which were all fairly effective but you could choose a weapon based on play style rather than just bigger number. The apprentice could have more elemental attacks like forked lightning or fireballs and the monk could have status effects like weaken or weights(pull wyverns down/slow ground guys) etc.


4. What new projectile type would you like to see?
I would Like to see the Apprentice charge attack to home in on the target, they would still start by spreading out from the staff but at a less wide angle then close in towards the target (there would be a minimum range they go before turning back in). This would still allow for nice close ranged dmg but also make them a lot more effective at long range vs high HP targets so they won't constantly risk death for damage.

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I really did enjoy the ranged in DD, And like i saw in a previous post we should be rewarded for having good aim at far distance. I know at some points, you would have to walk right up to the target to do max dmg and risk getting ur face bashed in. I really like the Sniper aspect of games and would like to see something along that line. An idea would to maybe imput a spec tree so you can make your toon unique or even special weapon spells. . The monk was a decent class but wasn't very interactive although the aura was a must. The ranger was my favorite ranged class due to her Bombs and insane super fast walk and gun fire rate, you felt like a speed racer tearing up the map.
1) Best Strengths - All classes seemed balanced and all were a joy to play. There wasn't a class i didn't like to play. Although i did have my favorites. So what ever u did keep it up :)
2) Biggest Weakness - Once i got higher in levels with my toons, like 80+ i found the gameplay to get stale and boring. As the monk you set up your aura's and such and really you just shoot and run around. Same with Ranger, lay your bombs and run around and shoot. I feel there really needs to be more curve balls and challenges once your 20min into a map. Add special abilities as i said above to keep you on the move and having to think. Having maps that have random spawn points so the map is never the same is a nice way. Having bosses that defy the laws and maybe need to be kited? controlling air plains to bomb or even carry enemies, or trucks to run over or push enemies? (vehicle would have health and what not like a movable tower)
3) what to improve - Possible Spec tree or Special abilities added to guns. I really do like games that offer you 3-4 active spells to use during game play and being able to switch ur active spells in a menu when out of game. As i saw above, charging the mage spell seems useless as it took too long for the little dmg it did. Maybe buff this ability and add effects like push back and pierce so charged spells spread through a crowd.
4) new projectile type - Pierce (random chance to pierce and hit other targets) Knockback, stun, Tazer(stun + dmg + cool lightning effect) Gravity Gun ( :D ) You could have rocket launchers with locked on homing missles?, Snare(throw a rope to snare), Give Mellee a slow time effect so they can go into a crowd do some dmg and get out(maybe cooldown this spell or even have this shot from a grenade launcher from a ranged class to assist the mellee?)

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I am on the council already.

1. The part of ranged combat that worked well were the vast array of types of ranged weapons. Even if they were not all balanced many of them had specific uses and could be useful.

2. the biggest downside I can say was that the huntress had so many types of guns but the mage and monk both had very limited options. I always played the adept as i loved her stuff but would have loved to have some more shooting options like the huntress did. The other big thing was the way the charging on the staff worked for the apprentice. It was good in concept but to really do good damage you had to charge it just right so you fired before the full charge happened but as close to it as you could get so you did not get the kick back delay on firing again but still did way more damage. And there was no way you could do that by hand. You had to get some kind of mouse clicker program to do it for you and just keep firing all the time at close to max charge. As fun as it was to do that crazy damage it was a bad system.

3. I think the biggest things to improve are giving all characters that have ranged weapons a diversity of them. And giving a character who is using ranged weapons a reason to stay at ranged. Heck giving most characters the ability to have two weapons, a ranged and a melee one and reason to use the right one for a given situation would be great.

4. A type of weapon I would like to see is one that poisons an enemy with a contagious plague. Hit an enemy to do damage over time to him and it every tick it spreads to other enemies near him. Make it ineffective to use on small groups of guys, but when there is a big chain stretching from you defensiveness all the way back to the zone in point and it can chain all the way along it can get a ton of enemies many before they even get up to you.

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?
The most substantial plus to the ranged characters and combat in dungeon Defenders was the capability to save your team with high damage far ranged projectiles when surprised by the differing elements (monsters) that made Dungeon Defenders 1 a challenge. The range saved you by ending them quickly when attacking the crystal. The rescue took no risk and could be done very quickly suggesting you have the correct weapons. Also one of the most grandiose factors of the ranged combat system was that the minimal damage income let you save stat points for things such as tower health and hero damage. Taking advantage of that factor could let you become a very good support to your team especially playing characters such as Series Ev and or The Apprentice.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?
The most hefty of the downfalls of ranged combat system was the incapability to stall and do wide spread damage such as the Squire does. This weakness often lead to the downfall of matches when my friends and I were all playing ranged characters. Again if you played the ranged character and put your stat points towards tower defense you can if caught in the wrong situation die easier than other heroes.

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?
A more range of the types of projectiles and a more ranging spread of weapons. The projectiles were all the same unless you count firing speed and such maybe new and large variety of projectiles could be made. Also the capability to build your item to certain things such as new projectiles and the ability to build your weapons more varying.

4. What new projectile type would you like to see? (Think DD1's varied projectile types, but be creative! Ex: A projectile that explodes at random intervals as it travels before hitting its target.) A gravity/distance effected projectile would be an amazing addition to the game. Doing more damage as a gravity effected shot comes down after shooting vertically or the farther the distance the more damage it does would add a varying element that can be a draw back and a plus at the same time. For example a close distances when trying to stop monsters close to the crystal you couldn't do as much damage or couldn't get the angle to let a gravity effected projectile to do more damage, but when you can such as defending normally you could do better then such getting an greater advantage in normal play but a disadvantage at certain points making a ultimately powerful weapon but with its draw backs.

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?

-Easily that you had decent/good damage early on in a (survival) game while sitting behind your defenses in the later waves of a game kept you active if the extra damage was needed.


2. What were the biggest weaknesses?

-It came down to only a few weapons were ideal and everyone would push to find the best ones of those types only. You don't see someone with 5k damage using a depth charge!

-Having to be point blank on a multi-shot weapon to do the ideal damage.


3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?

-I would suggest having skill trees so that people chose crits, damage, projectile speed or reload, piercing, splash etc. This ties into the add in abilities suggestion as well.

-All mages benefit from upping elemental damage instead of base damage and end up with more overall dps for being a glass cannon. All hunter types get a better chance to crit and lower rate of fire or faster rate and lower chance.

-Elemental weapons do bonus damage to specific enemies or even bosses, eg. you have to use the fire enhanced gun to beat the first boss in a decent amount of time.

-Ranged attacks don't easily kill mages/djinn with ranged deflector shields, you have to get up close or disable it.

-Have weapons that you tack on the stats/abilities for. Reload speed dependent on hero casting, Damage from stats and so on. A fire mage hero can crit with a fire enhanced weapon whereas an ice mage cannot and fire weapons do less damage. Weapons are essentially hollow tools to form the magic inside a hero into damage.

-A wider range of choices, do I pick this magic land mine layer or magnetic railgun?

-Some weapons can charge to pull the multi-projectiles into a smaller radius and increased damage.

-The ability to zoom in and snipe as a hunter for either a bow or gun.

-The ability to turn auto-aim off and also shoot a full 90 degrees up or down as needed - and the projectiles will come out where your cursor is, not from your belly (try shooting down over a ledge, you have to get on the corner though your cursor is not blocked).

-Location weakpoints per enemy types, headshots, back, under the arm all can do mini-crits.

-A reason to want a glass cannon against a boss and a way to protect them. This may require an aggro system on mini bosses or bosses, but as it is, if you have someone that's a mage with low hitpoints, they are useless to the team as they die too quickly. Have a "safespot" on encounters that they can hang out in and play from but still have to move, eg. first 25 seconds, this spot is safe, then it burns up because the boss sees you hiding there.

4. What new projectile type would you like to see?

-Magical land mine layer.

-Fire-able distraction decoys, similar to the EV double but it can fight instead of stand there. You could deploy several over to a ledge and actually lead guys to fall off chasing them. This may be more of a skill tree item than a weapon, but something that you'd want your fellow ranged hero to have.

-Sniper shots

-Glaive projectiles

Thanks!

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All of my previous DD1 experince is from the console version of the game so bear that in mind while reading. Pretty sure my laptop is good enough to run DD (and maybe DD2) as well I just don't have the finances to pick it up.

1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?

I grew rather fond of the ranged combat simply because of the extremely bright color scheme the game devs decided to go with. Throw on top of that an interesting set of ranged weaponry that all performed in various different ways and it gave me as a player, the feeling that I HAD to get one of each type of weapon just to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?

The lack of variety in the types of projectiles shot by the Monk and Apprentice classes. It would have been nice to see the Squire get SOME sort of ranged attack as well.

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?

Currently an Apprentice can get a higher DPS if they only charge their attack for a brief moment. I feel this should be tweaked a bit so that they are putting out their max DPS when they fire a fully charged shot. As it stands there isn't any real penalty for doing this half charged attack as you can still do it pretty quick. I feel like having it so that they achieve their max DPS only when firing fully charged shots will balance it out a bit as they will have to take the time to charge the attack up fully. An additional way to balance this could be to cut their movement speed down by like 33% while charging a shot. Give the squire class a ranged attack (more on this below!).

4. What new projectile type would you like to see?

I think the squire should have a grappling hook type ranged attack. One that didn't actually do any large amounts of initial damage but either pulled the target to the Squire or pulled the Squire to the target. Could probably expand on the possibilities of this Squire range attack by allowing the squire to grapple objects (walls and such) as an alternate means of travel around the map. Lightning projectiles that behave much like the Apprentice's Lightning tower would be cool. A frost type projectile that slowed enemies down.

That's all I can think of at the moment. I sincerely apologize if some of my ideas are already in the first DD. As I mentioned at the start my only experience in DD as of right now is on console which, to my understanding, lacks a LOT of the content that is found on the PC version.

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1. The biggest strength was the extreme mana income with a genie, by satying at safe distance at the deffense.
2. Big weakness was the low life
3. I would like to see not someone like the jester DPS, because the health is so damn high and he is ranged. Yes he deals very low
damage, but too many for his health and ranged
4. I would like something that spawns little gas smoke granats, which explodesd and deal constant damage to enemys around. Like
smokegranats with a smoke duration

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1. The biggest strenght is the ability to controll really well where you want to aim.
2. i would say the small benefits of stay far off
3. I would have some really good sniper weapons that would have longer range/more dmg/longer reload and mabye some wepons that award you for killing up in close, closer to the enemies deals more dmg/ effect(Parrylise,stun,slow,tp a enmies) make it more fun doing dmg.
4. a time travel projectile. One that after charging up in the air for 5 sec rushes forwared.
Maby a heat seaker projectile that only hit kobolts.
Robot arms that grab them at stuns them for short time.
Freaze/flame thrower burns/freaze enemies.
Black hole, sucks inn the enemies.
Gravity projectile that forces air units to walk for short amount of time.
Shockwave. pushes melee units backwards.

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First i want to apologies about my enlish who is full of grammatical mystake i'm sure of it but i think the principal ideas i writing is easy to understand :)



1) I think the biggest strenghts of ranged combat was the fast upgrading of tower without risk (i mean with the genius),and also the ranged player can for the first
waves be really helpfull to protect crystal without moving when all the tower is not here.



2) i really dont found a real weaknesse about the ranged combat system , he's how he have to be, maybe to similar for all the ranged heroes.


3) I think the heroes have grow up now and they should knows more skills cause they have learn a lot from all this crystals they have saved :)

i have thinking a lot for this question and i think the ranged defenders should have more ranged skills cause the automatic attack is always the same, to improve the gameplay of dps defenderds
Maybe something like : - For the mage : a cast who slow enemy for few second + a fire cast really powerfull cause he's grow up now and he have studying more spell
- For the monk : I dont know cause he's also a cac defender and i like the way he buff the other :)
- For the Ranger : i was thinking about the ability to switch weapon maybe he can switch with a special gun with the ability to reducing some enemy and stun them (like a rocket lancher xD)
+ a skill for really evade from a group of enemies , i mean the invisible thing was cool but a more awesome action like she make a huge backflip and go far away from where she was.

4) For the mage : He could have some elemental projectile with dot on some weapon, i think it could be cool if we can see with cool animation what sort of damage his staff is doing, like little fireball,poison cloud or little lights
but the most important is the game could be playing by everyone and not to need a huge config to play the game..


For the Ranger : It will be fun if she could have a rocket lancher.. reaaallly cool,
Laser could be a really cool projectile to add, it's not gonna add a lot of difference but hey, you have lightsabers on your game ! common ! where is the blasters !! You can make some laser who can bounce on the wall or split when they touch the first goblin..

And Siimon_Sama was talking about Sniper gun , this is really a great idea.



For now i think that's all i have, i already have my council seat.


Thanks for doing this awesome game :)


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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?

Personally, the biggest strengths to the ranged system for the ranger or the mage is that they no matter what can get in to the situations where if a melee character were to get in they would not last very long where as they can deal with that target over time without taking the damage a melee character would take. This is the strongest factor in my opinion. Although, I find the system very good and might not need much changes.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?

Personally, having a mage be the first and the Series EV being the second to level up to a high level, the only thing I found was that the unlimited speed of projectiles to be a down side personally. The main thing was how projectiles could travel almost instantly from wand to enemy. This is useful but can seem to be over powered if the player can stand at one spot and snipe the enemy before they can get to the towers.

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?

I would make projectiles have the ability to break through enemies or if they enemy is large [EX: orges, bosses, or any new type of large mob ;)] it can hit the enemy multiple times in one shot due to its size.

4. What new projectile type would you like to see?

How does a bouncing cannon ball/grenade sound? Something like the loose cannon in TF2 where it can bounce then explode or have a short timer to it or the cannon ball can have a range to it but it must be aimed higher because its own weight will pull it down like a actual cannon ball would do.

Hope I was helpful in more ways then one :)

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?
A: Do i need to say something? PEW! PEW! PEW! + "sweetheart" graphic + charismatic characters + high-speed fighting = EPIC WIN!

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?
A: Lack of weapon customization and effects(blind, curse, burn, death sentence etc).

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?
A: Add some new mechanics like..
Headshot system [even with melee weapons] (when shooting\hitting the head, Duh!)
Crippling system, slow down (when shooting on their legs!) and strength down (when shooting on their arms!)
Little Recoil System (because with no-recoil headshots are OP!)
+Weapon Effects Bleeding Effect\HP Drain Effect\MP Drain Effect\Blind Effect\


4. What new projectile type would you like to see? (Think DD1's varied projectile types, but be creative! Ex: A projectile that explodes at random intervals as it travels before hitting its target.)
A:
Chi Guns! -- Kame Hame Ha style, a gauntlet usable by Monks\Initiates which he focuses his Ki and releases powerful waves of destruction
Nukes! -- NUKE!! Sort of a giant rocket launcher usable by Huntresses\Rangers! an IMBA destructive weapon that damages enemies in a DAMN INCREDIBLE LARGE AoE, but it has an awful shoot per second rate.
Spears! -- Squires\Contesses now have a weapon that enables some tricky attacks (attacks that hits lots of targets in a cone\fan\crescent shape attack) with fairly big AOE, damage and speed.
Magic Treasure! -- Apprentice's\Adepts weapons, they have +1 slot on their Equip tab, magic treasures are: "Rings, Necklaces, Mystic Stones, Dragon bones or pretty much anything" each one with unique capabilities, granting the mage a HUGE boost on his spells.


That's all i could think by now.
Sorry about my bad english-- i'm from Brazil :) had no english classes until my adulthood.

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?

One of the first strengths that should be mentioned, is that a character completely dependent on towers could still help in a significant way, while still keeping up with the defenses. That way the majority of the work of killing off a good chunk of monsters did not fall on the DPS heavy character build. Instead it allowed characters to work together in a significant way that allowed both parts to be vital to one another.

Then there is the most obvious strength for ranged combat. Which is NOT getting hurt, and still dealing damage. This is especially important when you are on hardcore mode. When in hardcore, for the tower characters it's very important to keep your distance from any monsters. The clear advantage with ranged weapons is that you can stay away from all the monsters, and still progress towards finishing the round.

Another strength we have, is the variety of ranged weapons and combinations that appeared in the first Dungeon Defenders. Flame Throwers and staffs, bows, machine guns (haha). It was all unique, and if you didn't like how a specific ranged weapon worked, you could simply find, buy, trade for or discover a new one.

The upgrades for such weapons. This one is important. When dealing with ranged weapons, you guys have allowed for upgrades that actually affects the weapons and the attacks themselves. More shots? No problem! You can upgrade that. I remember picking up a particular gun that shoots spiders, and being able to upgrade the amount of spiders being shot and it was fantastic. This single upgrade option alone was valuable, and I really do hope you've kept it in the newest game in some way.



2. What were the biggest weaknesses?

Well, for a ranged weapon system, sometimes you had to be really close for some of the ranged weapons true potential to be exposed in damage and in spread. This was mostly a problem with staffs and a few more spread based guns, but it felt really counterproductive to have to come close to shoot bigger enemies so they get the MAJORITY of my shots, instead of strategically moving around at a distance giving the bigger enemies some decent damage.

Some ranged weapons clearly have an advantage. Staffs vs. a bow or machine gun? Staffs. Some weapons clearly have advantages in upgrades and damage that some weapons honestly become useless in later levels, and I find myself avoiding those particular weapons. I mean, there might be a rare exception here and there but it doesn't feel "balanced" in the sense. Like, for what some weapons can't make up in damage should be able to make up in speed possibly? Something along the lines of that. Like I said, there is clearly a point in the game where players go "this just doesn't work as a weapon anymore" and avoids finding anything that isn't what they are consistently searching for.



3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?

I would definitely keep the unique upgrades (and possibly find innovative ways to extend it) and the varied types of ranged weapons. As these strengths really do make for a great ranged/tower dependent character. But I would highly recommend finding a way for ranged weapons to all have an opportunity to be MORE useful later in the game when found. For example, ranged weapons that aren't as powerful are way faster to shoot or if it's not very fast or high damage, give it a huge area of effect sort of deal. Something that balances finding weapons, and makes them more useful in the game, instead of discard-able later on in higher levels.

Maybe some way to balance out the need for some ranged weapons to be used really close up. Like I said previously, if I was able to strategically move my way around the map and do decent damage (maybe less than my teamates) and NOT have to get closer to enemies to effectively damage them, that would perfect. :)

More weapon types! Haha this is quite obviou. You guys have done a great job providing a ton of ranged weapon types in Dungeon Defenders, so I really do hope you extend that as well as keeping a few of the older ones! This is something that you guys have given HUGE potential to from the first game, and I can only imagine the possibilities with the 2nd.



4. What new projectile type would you like to see?

I think it would be really cool to have a grenade launcher type of deal but instead of shooting out grenades it shoots out firework balls. When shot, they land on the ground and take a few seconds before activating and exploding into an area of effect damage sort of deal, creating beautiful fireworks for us to admire while our enemies are being slaughtered in front of our eyes. A beautiful display of defending.

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1. The best thing about ranged combat were the weapons that had either multiple projectiles like the apprentice and monk weapons once they had a decent damage associated with them which allowed for weakening enemies as the towers took them out more easily, especially when firing into a crowd. Another strength were the piercing weapons that while they didn't fire in multiple directions, could really drive waves back.

2. The biggest weakness about ranged combat is the reload time for the weapons with high numbers of shots, and being interrupted by an enemy attack and having to start the process over. Even when interrupted when healing your character didn't send you back to your previous health, and compared to real life, the only guns that reload like that are clip/magazine type guns which are faster to reload.

3. My suggestion would be to either have the guns reload one bullet at a time, or maybe allow an upgrade to be purchased to have them reload with a clip, maybe have the guns upgrade to a clip once it hits a certain threshold in ammo capacity. A weapon that shoots multiple directions is great, but being able to charge a single shot that can pierce enemies in a single direction would be a good addition as well.

4. For the apprentice, I'd like to see a weapon that has a charged attack that generates a large rolling projectile that moves through enemies at a slow pace, moves a set distance that could potentially be increased through stat boosting, but does small amounts of damage, like a giant fireball that does small damage and sets enemies on fire, rolling from 10 to 30 feet before fizzling out. Looking back at the grenade guns for the Huntress, I think they could've been a bit more effective, having the grenade rolling/bouncing down a lane knocking enemies out of the way, maybe even doing blunt damage before exploding, potentially adding random effects to the explosions like napalm or acid that left a pool of damage over time effects.

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1. What were the biggest strengths of Dungeon Defenders' Ranged Combat system?

The most obvious advantage was the ability to avoid taking damage. The best advantage however was the fact that you could sit back and see everything. You could see that your towers on the right were about to be overwhelmed so you no longer have to focus on those monsters on the left. The map showed this but often in an unintelligible manner.

2. What were the biggest weaknesses?

Well with your ability to avoid damage comes an inability to take damage. A hidden kobold or stray arrow could do more harm than an ogre. This also made it so you could not be the center of attention for monsters like say a squire or barbarian could; however, at higher difficulties and in certain modes this particular weakness became moot.

3. What would you improve about the system for Dungeon Defenders II?

My idea for improvement to make combat in general (not just ranged) more fun would be to give "rare" loot the ability to provide the player with some extra, random effects. For instance let's say I find a Godly Bracer of Combustion and it reads: whenever you hit with a basic attack you have a X% to cause an explosion dealing XXX-XXX (or X% of base damage to compensate for range/melee differences) damage in a small area. There could be multiple types of these effects and perhaps if you stack effects (for instance let's say I'm wearing Godly Bracers of Combustion and Godly Boots of Combustion) instead of increasing your chance for explosions, you would instead increase the damage dealt by the explosion by combining the two values together. This would give a sort of a subtle trait system that can only be acquired through gear and give players just one more goal to strive for.

Side Note: In case it wasn't clear I do mean for there to be more than just one type of effect. For instance you could have Godly Gloves of Haste that give you an X% chance to run X% faster for X seconds, or even a Godly Shirt of Poultry that has an X% chance to summon a chicken that distracts nearby enemies and has X amount of hp.

4. What new projectile type would you like to see? (Think DD1's varied projectile types, but be creative! Ex: A projectile that explodes at random intervals as it travels before hitting its target.)

I would like to see some sort of penetrating projectile (with diminishing effects of course) that every time it hits an enemy it fires off three more projectiles at 20-33% base damage each behind in the direction of the previous projectile. This would chain at least twice in order to get a good spread in damage.

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