Jump to content

News

  • entries
    584
  • comments
    22,851
  • views
    275,537

Contributors to this blog

Scavenger, Nightmare, and Beyond!


Blacksmith

10,103 views

Greetings, Defenders!


In this post I’ll be addressing some of the more recent topics that have been on a lot of your minds. The goal of this post is to give you a sense of where we are going with these changes and gather some feedback from all of you as we continue to work on these updates. With that said, let’s dive into it!

Scavenger


The Temporary Item Box (TIB for short) was a fantastic system that served many purposes. Instead of micromanaging your loot in the middle of a match you could trust your TIB to collect it for you, so you could sort through it later keeping your inventory nice, clean, and organized… It even saved items that fell out of the world! However, the infinite free space this provided could be a serious problem when Dungeon Defenders II went free as inventory space is one of our two sources of monetization.


When we removed the TIB, we created the Scavenger to do one job. His goal was to collect items that you rightfully earned but could not collect. So the Scavenger is meant to do half the things the TIB used to do… but what about the other half?


The truth of the matter is, we really didn’t know how bad interacting with loot was because the TIB was functioning as a bandaid for everyone (us included). We decided to rip it off and see what happened, hoping that it would expose the exact inventory issues we have to fix. Now that we’ve gathered enough feedback we are working on all the things Scavenger does not do. While it is still heavily under development, I’m going to walk you through the vision of what we are trying to achieve hoping that it will help alleviate some of your concerns.

Inventory 3.0


We would like to refine the way you are interacting with your inventory to make it more streamlined and less daunting. Additionally, we want everyone to be able to enjoy the game without purchasing inventory space. At the same time, we want inventory space to be something players value and enjoy purchasing. Here are the changes we are considering:

  • Bags can hold a much larger amount of slots (think the size of 4+ bags)

    • individual bag purchases will likely cost more to match the amount of space you receive

  • Players can open only one bag at a time (no need to worry about pesky scrolling issues)

  • Players can customize bags with Sorting Options

    • The first Sorting Option will be the ability for you to flag a bag as “Auto Collect”

      • When a bag is flagged as Auto Collect it will automatically pick up items you did not collect when the game ends

      • There will be a LOT of visual feedback to let you know when your Auto Collect bags are almost full

    • In the future we’d like to add even MORE cool Sorting Options

      • Example:

        • Auto Collect Squire Only

        • Auto Collect Legendary Only

        • Auto Collect Weapons Only

      • Note:  Don’t hold your breath, it might take a while

  • We are also investigating auto collecting items sooner than the end of the game as well as the possibility of expanding the size of a bag. How important are these two features to you?


We think this effectively returns the rest of the functionality of the TIB, but with more control and no timers. Instead, your only limit is inventory space. What do you think?


Please keep in mind that this is the long term vision of the Inventory. We are currently working on allowing you to flag an existing bag as “Auto Collect” as well as the feedback you need to know how full those bags are getting. After that we will be taking a look at the bag size points I mentioned above and in the long term, more Sorting options.


The Nightmare of Nightmare!


When we released Loot & Survive, the majority of our focus was on getting the Campaign feeling right. We also wanted to make sure our new loot systems were functional and allowed interesting conversations to form in the community. Our long-term goal was to provide you all with cool tools under the new system to allow you to shape the meta as the game evolves! As a result, we made a quick pass on Nightmare and left it be.


With Alpha & Beyond we took our first stab at really balancing Nightmare to be difficult. This time around we opted to make Nightmare the ULTIMATE CHALLENGE! We wanted to pull the difficulty back instead of push it forward, because you guys are always better at the game than we (or you) think. And we DID IT! Yaaaay! Except it was a little TOO ultimate…


Why did this happen? Welp, the truth is because we were going fast. We wanted to get you Nightmare I-IV and 4 hero builds as quickly as possible to iterate on your feedback.We had a handful of hardened defenders play an early version of Nightmare and while their reaction was positive, it didn’t give us the quantity of feedback we needed to get the balance right. That requires all of you. And honestly, this is why we’re in Early Access. Over the weekend we gathered all your feedback and decided to make some more changes to N1, N2, and N3. Once we get a good gauge on if you N1, N2, and N3 feel satisfying, we will then transition to figuring out N4.


Our Vision for the DD2 Endgame!


Our vision for DD2 has two sides to it: the Challenge and the Tools.


The Challenge is all about continuously challenging you with more and more content. We don’t want to eternally increase enemy stats and call it a day. We want to reduce the iPwr growth, challenging you to go and combine passives and skill spheres on your heroes to become badass enough to take on the toughest of challenges. We want to create new unique encounters, enemies, and experiences that start appearing in future Nightmare levels. Then, the early Nightmare levels will transition you from focusing on gaining iPwr only to thinking about what you want your hero to do and how to combine that with other heroes.


The Tools are about providing you with a multitude of ways to customize and express your lineup of heroes. Getting the right passives, getting the right power on those passives, and combining them with other heroes… but most important of all, it should be about all of you banding together to theorycraft ideas and evolve the meta. Whenever you one-up our challenges, it will be down to us to come up with newer challenges (and tools to take those on).


That is the (hopefully) bright future we want to push towards with DD2. We have a ways to go. We are currently working on many more passives and skill spheres to add to the game. With this next patch we plan on adding at least one full set for each hero. We also have several feature proposals that will provide you with even more tools in the works. And finally, we need to fix a lot of the issues that are making the loot grind a bit too grindy… We know it is getting harder and harder to get the right passive with the right stats and we’re working on some systems to fix that.


Controller Support Soon!

So uh… Controller support is coming soon… sooner than you think actually! I see this come up a lot in your feedback so I just wanted to throw it out there.


Closing Thoughts!


DD2 has come a long way over the past couple of years. A lot of blood, sweat, and love is going into this project but none of it would have been possible without all of you and your feedback. At the end of the day we are making this game for you and hopefully MILLIONS of other soon-to-be Defenders!


The next few months are going to be very exciting for both of us as we gradually start opening the floodgates. An influx of new players will gradually make their way into DD2 and it is up to all of you to act like awesome senpais and show them the ropes!


At Trendy, we are moving super hard and super fast to do everything we can to prepare for when that day comes. Sometimes we move so fast that it might feel like we are releasing things prematurely or that we are ignoring your requests and feedback. Please understand that we are releasing things prematurely -- that's the point of being an Early Access game. The faster we get something to you, the sooner we get your feedback and the quicker we get to react. In the coming months I encourage you all to focus your feedback and give us as much as possible. Constructive feedback drives us and helps focus on what you want to see in Dungeon Defenders II.


I can guarantee that on the other end of the screen is a small but devoted group of passionate developers whose sole purpose in life is to make the coolest game for all of you. And if it isn’t too much trouble, remember... we are human too.


41 Comments


Recommended Comments



Reading all of this plain makes me excited and proud that you all put your thoughts out here for us to read.

I support you Trendy and will continue to do so throughout whatever masterpieces or blunders come to us!

Bring on the the future!

Link to comment

I'm very excited for the inventory improvements.  Enabling players to further customize their looting experience is going to make the game much more efficient and convenient for players.

I would almost go even further, and allow further customization of the inventory screen, maybe even add re-sizeable item icon slots, kind of like the 3DS does with games...


OUT4YQX.jpg

Sorry for the huge pictures, I just wanted to visibly show what I was talking about.  There's also many other examples of inventory management from MMO's and Action RPG's that we could go into more depth about, but I think the upcoming changes are a step in the right direction.

I'm going to continue checking out Nightmare and giving feedback about the current state of difficulty and I can't wait to see what the game holds in store for the future!

Link to comment

Hey Lewleit!

We're big extra credits fans here at trendy and yes we talk a lot about "failing faster". Although when we talk about it we say that "sometimes design needs to get something wrong before they can get that thing right", I could probably write another couple of blog posts on this topics and lessons learned from DD2!

Link to comment
@Elandrian quote:

I'm very excited for the inventory improvements.  Enabling players to further customize their looting experience is going to make the game much more efficient and convenient for players.

I would almost go even further, and allow further customization of the inventory screen, maybe even add re-sizeable item icon slots, kind of like the 3DS does with games...

6qbCA6N.jpg

RzlRkFd.jpg


Sorry for the huge pictures, I just wanted to visibly show what I was talking about.  There's also many other examples of inventory management from MMO's and Action RPG's that we could go into more depth about, but I think the upcoming changes are a step in the right direction.

I'm going to continue checking out Nightmare and giving feedback about the current state of difficulty and I can't wait to see what the game holds in store for the future!

That's a cool idea [[3957,users]] thanks for sharing!

In response to Elandrian

Link to comment
@keona quote:

Blacksmith what's the deal with gold sinks in the game? Is trendy intentionally shooting themselves in the foot? Gold is hard to make especially for new players but pricing seems targeted at endgame players. I've made this complaint numerous times and have not seen any type of comments by a dev on the reasoning behind this move to overprice everything.  I mean come on 48k for level VII small sphere, 125k for lg sphere, 25k for costume unlocks etc....

I'm glad you guys are working on endgame but don't forget about the new player experience as well.

Hey [[74509,users]]

Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! [[67667,users]] is actively working on that stuff!

In response to keona

Link to comment

Well from the news about the Inventory system I can see a lot of players being much much happier in the future. 

Personally I look forward to all the new builds and balancing that will be coming in the game.

Link to comment
@keona quote:

Blacksmith what's the deal with gold sinks in the game? Is trendy intentionally shooting themselves in the foot? Gold is hard to make especially for new players but pricing seems targeted at endgame players. I've made this complaint numerous times and have not seen any type of comments by a dev on the reasoning behind this move to overprice everything.  I mean come on 48k for level VII small sphere, 125k for lg sphere, 25k for costume unlocks etc....

I'm glad you guys are working on endgame but don't forget about the new player experience as well.

actually, if i remember right, costumes unlocks used to raise in price to upgrade. The 4th or 5th used to cost 100k. So... No. They do not only create the gold sinks. I think the prices are about right, just the gold income could maybe be a little higher.

In response to keona

Link to comment

Good news, too bad while you were messing with nms, doing insane rerolls, i remembered i had Diablo 3, and well . . .

Hopefully once i decide to give this game a second chance, you already figured out a healthy way to increase challenge by keeping fun ;)

And about scavenger, well i don't get the whole item bag "monetization" stuff, at the end of the day people don't need that many slots once they sold everything they don't need, but oh well is your game

Link to comment

When i read "Sorting Options" for bags, i got all excited about Sorting. Shortly i realized it was about Looting :/ was disappointed but still excited about those looting options. Just a note about confusing description :)

I think the bag size increase, timers on items removal (as well as TiB removal) and auto-looting option primarily, accompanied by other listed options, is a step in the right direction for inventory management. I like it. 

Scavenger. When doing Onslaught runs, the TiB helped out tremendously. Both in "emergency situations" and in general. When doing a 12 hours Onslaught run, your bags fills up really fast. TiB used to help out a lot. Scavenger, on the other hand, does the opposite. Takes your items to the tavern and the timer is ticking. It's terrible. Say, you are picking your loot after a couple of rounds and suddenly, your bags are full. You pick up a couple items automatically and realize you lose them if you stay in the Onslaugh for another 3:01 hours... Because the timer is already going. I would love to see this one looked into.. :)

Cheers
Seph

Link to comment
@keona quote:

Blacksmith what's the deal with gold sinks in the game? Is trendy intentionally shooting themselves in the foot? Gold is hard to make especially for new players but pricing seems targeted at endgame players. I've made this complaint numerous times and have not seen any type of comments by a dev on the reasoning behind this move to overprice everything.  I mean come on 48k for level VII small sphere, 125k for lg sphere, 25k for costume unlocks etc....

I'm glad you guys are working on endgame but don't forget about the new player experience as well.

[[74509,users]]

Yup! That's a very valid concern for the exact reason that more and more new players will be coming online shortly, you got that absolutely right. They might be a little too aggressive now, we are still gathering data and we'll be assessing the economy in the future. We'll let you all know what we find!

In response to keona

Link to comment

[[48971,users]] talking about inventory, have you thought about adding a sell button from in-game so you don't even have to add things you don't want to to your inventory? or even a sell all option. with this we could run around and pick up the useful items on the ground and then click sell all to convert all the junk straight to gold.

Link to comment

Gonna throw some Scavenger / TIB suggestions here:

With the proposed increase in size, switch the player-carried Bags to a "Kafra" / Stash system;
The Stash would be for keeping items for later use (lockboxes, pet food, passive orbs, market tradeables, recipe items, upgrade material...). The existing bag and the old TIB functionalities could then be merged into a new NPC with limited - but upgradeable - inventory space, that auto-collects items for the player (after each wave?) and is available for interaction (during the planning phase? even during waves?). Items on this new NPC's inventory don't "time-out". Instead of a NPC it could be, say, a fairy that auto-loots stuff when you walk over it... for crying out loud! this could be your pet auto-looting stuff for you, with a limited inventory space - thus a TIB without the infinite space problem. Plus it gets a "sell all" button.

The important point here being some form of auto-loot and / or temporary loot space that doesn't mess your "keepers" stuff.
(why am I so set on auto-loot? because Gold currently comes from selling all the trash that you find for very small profit, thus missing stuff on the ground means no Sphere / upgrade progression. Plus, clicking through tons of stuff that is worth 20G just to try and make enough G on the long run... makes us the Scavengers. I feel like an abadoned child picking metal cans on the streets to try and buy a meal.)

The Scavenger would then proceed to loot everything that this fairy / pet / new NPC didn't fit on it's inventory / stuff that fell from the world... and then proceed to try and sell that stuff to the player. That's right: the Scavenger gets to sell (somewhat cheaply) the stuff that he picks from the ground. Also, he moves to the basement. He stops feeding from garbage and buys a sandwich from the tavern keeper. Everybody wins.

tl;dr: give us some sort of auto-loot; give us a limited inventory for that auto-loot; give us a way to access that limited inventory (NPC between waves? menu if it is your pet that loots?); convert the bags (now called boxes or stashes or something, cos' bigger) into a box for safekeeping.
Proceed to break your itemization into different items that the player wants to safekeep.
???
Profit! :D

--

Thank you for showing us your plans for the game and being the awesome team that you are.
Kudos, TE!

Link to comment

When I was rotating my pets (so my main building class can have the better pet), the better pet for some reason dispersed and when I checked the scavenger to see if it somehow got there, and it appeared then vanished and I never found the pet....

REST IN PEACE, 33/45 purpeller cat.

Link to comment

So, uhh I really wanna know when those of us who bought the collector's edition of DD2 will get the new tower skins? I hope that's not too much to ask for.

Link to comment
@Malevolent_Moloch quote:

So, uhh I really wanna know when those of us who bought the collector's edition of DD2 will get the new tower skins? I hope that's not too much to ask for.

Great question! Tower Skins are definitely still on our roadmap, but the system requires programming time to implement. Right now, that programming time is being devoted to fixing issues with core systems, crashes and bugs. We'll keep everyone updated on the timeline of Tower Skins.

P.S.  I want Tower Skins so, so, so freaking much. 

In response to Malevolent_Moloch

Link to comment

Looking forward to the changes!

One thing that would make inventory management a ton easier would be if each piece of gear displayed how many upgrade points its worth for enhancing gear. The biggest thing that slows me down when figuring out what gear to keep and what to sell is trying to figure out whats worth more upgrade points to the enchantress.  Sometimes a green boot is worth more than a legendary weapon depending on the iPwr.  That single change of displaying the enchant value on all items would alleviate all my inventory issues.

Thanks!

Link to comment

*high fives DD2 Devs* We have faith in yall! I am most excited for the Inv 3.0 even though I was probably one of the "controller support" pests initially... I've grown accustomed... to your face... I mean, KB+M gameplay. ;-)

Link to comment

Sounds realy good!

But one question: why a "auto collect" item bag? why dont use the scavenger for this? i mean thats what the scavenger is for, and not an item bag.

Link to comment
@Nelly quote:

Sounds realy good!

But one question: why a "auto collect" item bag? why dont use the scavenger for this? i mean thats what the scavenger is for, and not an item bag.

cuz scavanger would than be op, there is no point to buy bags if scavinger is your bag. Game have to live from something, I just hope they will keep skins achivable by doing daily missions, this will bring soo much biger pool of players. Its a whole new step in free games, noone have done this. And in the long run i think is worth it, you just need to have active players, and they will bring their rich friends XD.

In response to Nelly

Link to comment

Ikinda never felt gold was useless since item upgrades ate alot of gold after first upgrade. And i felt this system if more Balanced could filter alot of gold atm its Free at start and you gotta be Billionaire once you want to uprade something more then once. But the Upgrade system lacks depth and motivation anyway. Its just not that cool. It could be way more satisfiyng.


Pet reroll (if you had components) cost me aton before you nerfed it to 50000 a pop i rerolled a pet at least 40 times in order to get it to near max stats whit the idiotic random generator just lemme choose a pet stat i like and random that stat not random stat and random ammount of that stat thats when u can increase the price. NOW i cant do that ever unless id like to spend 2000000 gold and i would need about 1 MONTH of playing normaly without even sleeping i would need to hire somone to keep playing while im sleeping to get that much GOLD ATM. if i dont play maps for just gold farming which cant be the point of the GAME.

Pet reroll price at 5000 gold max with previous income was Fine.



Its something that lets me stop playing such a game and delete it. Unless i get paid to play it whcih i should get kinda i start getting that feeling if i play DD2 atm.

Sphere Pricing just dont make sense at 125000 Gold for some minor *** spheres. INSANE.
I Agree it was a bit Cheap before but before you reduce income x3 for thoose that dont farm gold and increase pricings x10 you should try some Middleground .....or ask around first what would you price it.

Its really should be obvious how much is too much but it doesnt seem to be which makes me really sad.
I played so many 1000 Games and if you did that you can really tell balancing is way out of order atm.Im really more of the Grinder type person and i can say if i feel its too much its really too much unless your mister Super Grind Grind which thinks a sphere should be worked for a week to me 1hour for a minor sphere sounds more realistic and maybe 5 or 6 hours for a really really good one. At a blink of an eye i could tell no HELL nooooooo.Why mess it up that much in order to balance. Do you really need to make ppls cry in and whine on the ground in order to balance it right ? Bah.




i get about 15000 gold  a Hour atm just a guesstimation, cant be much more after checking the gold i own after each map and thats in a normal Nightmare 2 map so ask yourself how long do you want a player to unlock it all ,it should be clear. In Order to get 4 good pets 2000000 gold eachx4 8000000 upgrade all your items to max while playing 5000000 gold Buy all Spheres 3000000 gold thats 16000000 didive thru 15000 =133 days playing 8 hours each day.  Time to quit your job and go playing. Since it will feel like your new Job just the boss likes to change the working rules at times. So basiacally your at max lvl after like 5 days then at 10 days all your Heros are Max yet you couldn buy spheres nor have pets worth *** nor upgraded gear since this will take you another 123 days ... congrats. Game Won after 10 days since it wouldn make sense to play any longer.

Anyway im a tad frustrated as you can see in this post. Since playing this mess atm doesnt make much fun. And if i had the tools the Programmers of a Game should have it should kinda be obvious if you have a plan.

Link to comment

I second a sell button on items in the game world. Would cut the time down sorting through the stuff when we finish the map. 

When we are teamed up with other players we want to play the next map not wait for everyone to sort their inventory.


Full controller support sounds good. Using Joy2key and a dualshock 4 controller at the moment. Works good. Can not use a 360 controller at the moment as you have weird partial support in the game, so was lucky I just bought the dualshock 4. An annoying part of using a controller is the mouse cursor always starts in the top left corner when any menu pops up so have to scroll back to where I want it.

Will the controller support be the beggining of Split Screen local Co Op? At the moment my girlfriend and I are taking it in turns. I know some people think this will bring power leveling like in DD1 with an inactive second player (for lonely people!) so I suggest any exp or other bonuses (pet affection etc) is divided by the local players. 

Problem solved really, we just want to play together.


P.s. Thanks for the last patch. Nightmare is much more fun now.

Link to comment

Please add a sorting button to the inventory. A simple way to get all the helmets next to eachother, all the shoes, all the weapons etc.

Make a seperate bag for the insane amount of eggs you get. I love my pets but at best an egg needs interacting with just once every 8 hours and they expire after 48hours. In the meantime they hog up to 3 item bags and mess up aforementioned sorting.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...