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Influence Vote: Partial Wipe vs. Full Wipe

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iamisom

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Greetings, Defenders!

Welcome back to Influence, where you help us make decisions about Dungeon Defenders II!

Our next patch, Loot & Survive, is coming soon™. It contains pretty much everything you could want while defending Etheria -- a new leveling/progression curve, level cap increase to 50, rewards & Skill Sphere choices as you level up, a completely new loot/stat system, Onslaught Mode, Nightmare mode, an economy balance to make gold more meaningful, and oh so much more.

Because of the scope of these changes, we must wipe some of the profile data for the game. This data will simply not exist anymore after the update. However, we’ve received feedback from many of you that a full wipe (reset) would be preferred to a partial wipe. So, we’d like to put this decision up to you -- the players most invested in Dungeon Defenders II.

For the full details of the upcoming wipe and to make your voice heard, head to the Influence voting page!

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[[14,users]] Whenever I try to vote, it asks me to create a new account when signing via steam. I noticed it's a different site, and therefore I cannot use my existing points. Is this intended or a bug?

http://screencast.com/t/Tt9O49Zb34I9

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@Yuwee quote:

Vohl shadowexil I think maybe you guys need to re-read whats being deleted in the partial wipe. Note "Skill Spheres" are being erased that will include Ubers lol

we keep our tokens in the partial wipe so i guess ill get a refund...hope so

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@It's Super Effective! quote:

pmasher Whenever I try to vote, it asks me to create a new account when signing via steam. I noticed it's a different site, and therefore I cannot use my existing points. Is this intended or a bug?

http://screencast.com/t/Tt9O49Zb34I9

I fixed the link. Try using the new link and see if that works for ya. :)

In response to It's Super Effective!

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@Vohl quote:

C'mon ppl a partial wipe is fair enough...let the ppl who invested a lot of time to get the uber spheres and

the costume exp keep it.  VOTE PARTIAL WIPE!

+1

In response to Vohl

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Full wipe is beneficial for EVERYONE (gems refunded), partial wipe is only beneficial for players who got 100+ hours in it.

GO TEAM FULLWIPE

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All I really want is to keep the pet food I have been storing for a long time now, and it is kind of disappointing that all of that is pretty much going to waste now :C

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I hope this game doesn't wipe as much as Starbound did. That game was known for it and lost so many potential players that never came back after the wiping stopped.

http://steamcharts.com/app/211820

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Either way I am likely not going to give this game another minute of my time until full release. I only bought it and put in as much time into it as I did, when I did because of the promise of no wipes.

In contrast I bought killing floor 2 and played it a very small amount just to see where it was going and whatnot as they had told us that they would be doing wipes. They have since decided a wipe isn't necessary. so at least I get to enjoy that for now.

If a full wipe occurs I will definitely not play again until full release. It feels so ***ty to lose all of your progress after putting a lot of hours in. Maybe some people don't feel the same way, but when you have a lot of full time commitments, and have to decide what game to invest time into, it can be quite the burn to have to start from scratch after being promised otherwise.

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Full wipe but rewards accordingly to progress lost? A pet which gives a good deal of stats?

Unique weapon which scales with kills and levels?

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I commented on the latest Devstream uploaded to Youtube, and this is what I wrote;

Wipe absolutely everything! If that makes things easier.

If the updates turns out to be a disaster (I hope they don't, and I don't think they will) then I'm not going to be playing the game, even if I get to keep some of my items.

If the updates turns out to be freaking amazing (I hope they do, and I think they will) then I'm still going to play, regardless of the items I start out with.

I don't think anyone plays a game they don't think is fun at all, just because they have a couple more items (Which you'll replace in about 30 minutes) from the start.

People WILL play a game they think is fun, regardless. Buhu, my items are gone! What will I do?! Ohh, right... Play the game and get better items in a couple of hours.


Wipe everything, if that makes the process of balancing and tweaking the rates of stuph and things - easier.

... and, as someone else already pointed out: This will have everyone start on equal grounds, and is the most fair to everyone.

I've invested 200 hours into this game, and I've got a couple of decent items. But if there will be a wipe, then everything should be wiped. If you get a head-start, being able to buy things for Tokens right from the start - then that's not fair for people who don't have an abundance of tokens just laying around.

Either; wipe everything or have everyone start out with a set amount tokens, pet food and whatever else was mentioned in the Partial wipe. Have EVERYONE start with X pet food and X tokens, not 98.5% start with 0-20ish pet food/tokens and 1.5% start with 3 full bags of Exclusive pet food and 400+ tokens.

That 1.5% will obviously get a significant head-start in what is supposed to be a wipe, followed by a revamped item system to explore. Right?


My 2 cents

~Selfrot

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Well im ok with a full wipe IF the token system is changed. Been saving for what feels like a long time to get my Betsy egg(looks the same I know). The tokens are time and nothing more to me. I don't like losing all those daily's for nada. Also if it's a full wipe with no promise of being the last i'll be skipping out till it's done.

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What's the point playing during these next weeks until the next patch comes out, if we're gonna do a full wipe?
Just keep looking for bugs and glitches?

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Seems like the veteran players with more influence favor partial wipe, while newer players favor the full wipe. Whatever the community decides I'm down with it. I prefer partial myself, but I respect the majority vote. 

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Btw, for all the people who complain about a wipe. Sorry for your loss, but you should have known this would  come eventually. It's a game in pre-alpha. And besides it's not like we get left behind empty handed, we get an unique pet + skins. What's even more important is that they try to make the game better and more fun with constant updates , this is like they said themselves a necessary step to develop the game even further.


Just remember it's a game at the end of the day. Cheers and have fun playing fellow defenders.

In response to FallenGlory

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This absolutely suck.. I worked hard of my characters and it took forever to actually level them up.. Plus now I'm gonna loss the best weapon I have even gotten and I will never get it again....

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@amoswilson quote:

Well im ok with a full wipe IF the token system is changed. Been saving for what feels like a long time to get my Betsy egg(looks the same I know). The tokens are time and nothing more to me. I don't like losing all those daily's for nada. Also if it's a full wipe with no promise of being the last i'll be skipping out till it's done.

This guy neals it. Gold, weapons and other items you can back fairly easy. But a system where you have to log on everyday and play a certain map to obtain tokens then it a wipe is a lot harsher. With the limit of tokens you can get every day it takes a lot of time to get everything back. Not only time playing the game but allso time waiting till the limit is resetted.

In response to amoswilson

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[[14,users]] I hope Trendy actually reads some of the critical out of the box thinking some of us are doing here. Particularly with Partial Wipe + Gem/Token Refund and don't just act based purely on the results of the vote at the end of the week. The vote itself is easily rig-able if someone horded IP or have multiple free accounts.

If you actually read the main concerns from both parties you'll see that they can both be satisfied. TeamPartial wipe could get to keep their hard earned tokens and TeamFullWipe could get their gem/tokens refunded.


It seems to me that the issue is "fairness" of purchasing gameplay altering items like skill spheres is the only argument that TeamFullWipe is trying to hold up. In which case isnt skill spheres being managed as a character levels up?


There is more than 2 choices here, just most people feel they are limited.


I also believed that the devstream said they would only act on one of these choices if it was a landslide. With the way its going, that does not seem likely. so I personally hope this gives Trendy the feedback they were hopong for to come up with a better solution.

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View I am French, I use google translation to write this post:

It was not possible to make a system when you launch the game, we can choose if we want to be washed or partially washed? That way everyone would be happy. :)

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@westenra quote:

Warning: rant incoming. Forum warriors can skip this one.

1. I don't mind the item wipe, even though we were led to believe the reroll is more probable (stated in the previous streams)- people hoarding 160+ legendaries in hopes of getting something nice after the reroll are dissapointed, I suppose. Problem is,  with the changes in xp gain and hero lvl cap, devs must have known about the necessity to implement a wipe for a long time now - you don't do complete work on things as huge as that in a week, ffs. What was the use of telling people just reroll was more probable? I know, I know, devs didn't want to lose some players before the update. But couldn't the devs have shown us just a little respect and let us make our own decisions? Is that really too much to ask? In the end, the whole thing made the devs look bad and left the average players confused.

2. I do, kinda, mind the wipe of characters. While I don't have anything againts it on a logical level (if it's necessary, obviously just do it), I just don't see myself going through the pain of leveling up a partial or full team again. Yes, I am calling it a pain, because I don't want to go back to low lvl maps at all. Been there, done that. Many, many times - too many. Nothing is gonna change there, maps are the same, traps the same, heroes the same. Granted, we do get a nightmare/onslaught mode - but let's be honest, to even start thinking about trying that, you're gonna have to lvl up and gear up (I'm making assumptions based on my dd1 experience). Grinding just to be able to do a lvl 1 nightmare on that cursed first map? Ugh. Also, how much fun is working with random new players, who react to polite advice (like putting geysers close to the la, not 10 steps ahead of it) by throwing a hissy fit or leaving?Leveling up a whole new team takes time - I don't have that much spare time anyway.

3. Pets - I just don't understand why you would promote this aspect of the game with beastmaster contests, if pets are going down the drain anyway.

4. Tokens - eh, how about no? If I had genuine fun earning them, I wouldn't be able to protest. But to earn my nearly 200 tokens, I replayed the same 3 maps over and over again. It was fun the first few times. And after that? Boring. So boring, that I was hunting the alternate ending on betsy just to maybe get to see a glitch.

5. Costume progress/challenge progress - that was the only thing that got a reaction out of my buddies after the last dev stream. They didn't even flinch after I related the news on item and pets wipe, but once I mentioned costume and challenge progress, I have learned a few new curse words.


One more important thing - I'd like to know what is the % of players that are active on this forum. Because it looks like a handful of people are making the decisions for the whole community - and it can be a good and bad thing at the same time. Some people here seem to be a bit hardcore, able/willing to play a few hours per day? Well I hope that devs know better than to heed all of their requests - in the end, the player base consists mostly of average gamers, with other games in their steam/origin/ps4 accounts, able to play dd2 a few hours per week/every 2 weeks (people wanting to change how tokens are earned are a proof of that, see other threads). We tend to skip over dev news in our feeds, because we might have there posts from 20 other games we follow. Yesterday, I met 2 people ingame who didn't know jack about the wipe. They were happily farming gear...

There are some amazing games coming out later this year and early next year (you won't see me in dd2 for months after XCOM2 launches), so it's not going to be easy for dd2 to keep the current player base, especially if devs don't consider the average gamers and their wishes. When you see people on the forum saying they're leaving? That's a very bad warning sign. If devs count on a new player base, acquired after dd2 goes free to play, they may end up with mixed reviews on steam or worse on the launch day (I don't think Trendy can afford it after dde and taking so long with dd2). But hey, good luck, I'd love to be proven wrong.

TL;DR version -> I'm now concerned and vary of playing dd2. Then again, Terraria 1.3 is out xD

Dude, it's a pre-alpha game, you should've expected this. I've had the game since December '14 and have clocked up 3 hours play time for this reason. Rant when it's a fully released game and saves get wiped (which won't happen).

In response to westenra

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@Selfrot quote:

I commented on the latest Devstream uploaded to Youtube, and this is what I wrote;

Wipe absolutely everything! If that makes things easier.

If the updates turns out to be a disaster (I hope they don't, and I don't think they will) then I'm not going to be playing the game, even if I get to keep some of my items.

If the updates turns out to be freaking amazing (I hope they do, and I think they will) then I'm still going to play, regardless of the items I start out with.

I don't think anyone plays a game they don't think is fun at all, just because they have a couple more items (Which you'll replace in about 30 minutes) from the start.

People WILL play a game they think is fun, regardless. Buhu, my items are gone! What will I do?! Ohh, right... Play the game and get better items in a couple of hours.


Wipe everything, if that makes the process of balancing and tweaking the rates of stuph and things - easier.

... and, as someone else already pointed out: This will have everyone start on equal grounds, and is the most fair to everyone.

I've invested 200 hours into this game, and I've got a couple of decent items. But if there will be a wipe, then everything should be wiped. If you get a head-start, being able to buy things for Tokens right from the start - then that's not fair for people who don't have an abundance of tokens just laying around.

Either; wipe everything or have everyone start out with a set amount tokens, pet food and whatever else was mentioned in the Partial wipe. Have EVERYONE start with X pet food and X tokens, not 98.5% start with 0-20ish pet food/tokens and 1.5% start with 3 full bags of Exclusive pet food and 400+ tokens.

That 1.5% will obviously get a significant head-start in what is supposed to be a wipe, followed by a revamped item system to explore. Right?


My 2 cents

~Selfrot

"If you get a head-start, being able to buy things for Tokens right from the start - then that's not fair for people who don't have an abundance of tokens just laying around."


I agree with your post for the most part, but that one line is a bit grey.  If I were playing for 200+ hours, reaching level 50, and you only started playing a few days ago, is it unfair that I have more than you?  I look at tokens in a similar way.  It represents a time investment. 

If they cannot be refunded, and will still exist for the purchase of overpowered, game-breaking, "Uber" items, then (assuming that the new XP system is actually balanced), convert them to XP at a certain rate per coin.  It will convert directly into a currency that represents time invested at a flat rate.  The more effort that you put into acquiring said tokens, the more starting XP bonus you get.  Can also be converted into an XP bonus for X amount of time.  Like 50% more XP for the first X amount of experience earned, again based on the amount of tokens you've earned (and yes that means refunding the cost of Ubers and Betsy).  This would be similar to the "rested" bar in many popular MMOs.  Of course one problem among several is that we are now talking about lots of new coding for a system that had not previously existed.

Ultimately, I'm down with a wipe.  Losing tokens that I had be saving up because  "I want to see what they do with the next patch before I spend them" will be quite irritating, but if the new content is all that we're hoping for, I'll get over it sooner rather than later, and move on to rebuild. 

Ultimately, we signed up for a game still under development.  And we KNEW that going in.  So complaints about changes and setbacks are rather infantile.




In response to Selfrot

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I would honestly prefer a full wipe as long as I get my Premium Currency that was given to me returned. I think it would yield better results

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